Overall, I see this ride being 150% of what dark knight is for capacity, but not double, because of 4 across loading and OSTR's. I believe TDK is around 400/hour, so I would put this one at 600ish. This is Six Flags we are talking about here, not exactly a great model for effiency.
TDK is one of the highest capacity coasters at SFGAm, it gets 700-800/hour easily. If you want to see a horribly designed and programmed mouse visit Cajun, which gets more like 250/hour. And Daredevil Dive cannot get 8 riders at a time, it has two lifts that can take three riders at a time on each = 6 riders at a time.
If that's true, then why does the line feel so agonizingly slow? Those numbers put TDK at half the capacity of Raging Bull, which I certainly don't feel when I am in line for the 2. Yes, Cajun is horrible, but I really only feel like the TDK is about twice that when I am in line. Not only that, I've wondered how people with physical limitations can even board TDK, when it doesn't stop in the station. We don't need more rides that do that.
I was just on TDK last month with someone we brought up in a wheelchair and they didn't stop it. I knew they could obviously, but do you need to be in a coffin for that to happen?
/\ Not everyone in a wheelchair is paralyzed, if the person can walk just fine why would they stop the loading process for them to get on? As DejaVu2001 said, if they needed to stop the cars they would. At Disney Parks, where there are a lot of quick loading and omni-mover rides, there are have certain cars they use for disabled guests and only them once every time those cars go around to avoid constantly slowing down the belt.
No, I'm not that familiar with how Disney does things, but I have been impressed with capacity on larger coasters at Cedar Point, and especially Universal. Raging Bull is the only coaster I can think of that has left me impressed with capacity at GAm recently, not TDK. I certainly wouldn't put TDK anywhere in the top 5.
BLADE wrote:I have been impressed with capacity on larger coasters at Cedar Point, and especially Universal.
I agree their operation is good, especially at Harry Potters Forbidden Journey. It is very high capacity because it loads continuously on a moving belt that does not stop, same goes for Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit. But that wasn't a good route for SFGAm to take with TDK?
BLADE wrote:I've wondered how people with physical limitations can even board TDK, when it doesn't stop in the station. We don't need more rides that do that.
Would it be wrong to strive for Universals capacity? When I rode HRRR last year, the moving belt was not in operation yet and the train stopped in the station. It was brief, maybe 10-15 seconds, but enough to get in. This is what I understand about how the loading process is supposed to happen, but I have not seen it working. You are moving with the ride on the moving belt and getting in at the same speed. On TDK, you are on a stationary platform getting in at a different speed. That is a bit of a difference. I have not been on forbidden Journey yet. They could have made TDK have duel or triple loading stations and brought it to a stop. They had other options that could have worked. I'm young enough that is hasn't affected me yet (pre knee surgery). But I have been there with 2 people around 60 and it was a struggle for them to get in.
Overall, I see this ride being 150% of what dark knight is for capacity, but not double, because of 4 across loading and OSTR's. I believe TDK is around 400/hour, so I would put this one at 600ish. This is Six Flags we are talking about here, not exactly a great model for effiency.
TDK is one of the highest capacity coasters at SFGAm, it gets 700-800/hour easily. If you want to see a horribly designed and programmed mouse visit Cajun, which gets more like 250/hour. And Daredevil Dive cannot get 8 riders at a time, it has two lifts that can take three riders at a time on each = 6 riders at a time.
Where are you getting 6 from? Every picture I have seen of a eurofighter has 2 rows of 4=8. Is this one going to be different? 3 across seems like it would have loading complications.....
BLADE wrote:Ilovethevu, you usually bring up very good points in your posts, but there are a few things in this one I disagree with. Superman is supposed to be able to do 1100/hour. Iron Wolf has to be more like 950 ish. The eagle should have been able to do more like 1000 side when it was new, but the problematic restraints slow things down today. IW, viper, and the 3 rides above, all have trains that hold at least 28 people. Demon is 24. Dare Devil Dive is 8. And you know darn well that our park would never spring for duel loading stations. They would make sure this ride can be staffed by 5 or less people. I envision 1 loading and 1 unloading station. 2ops for loading, 1 for unloading, and 2 for controls, and no single rider line. Overall, I see this ride being 150% of what dark knight is for capacity, but not double, because of 4 across loading and OSTR's. I believe TDK is around 400/hour, so I would put this one at 600ish. This is Six Flags we are talking about here, not exactly a great model for effiency. .
I get those numbers by reading the Target capacities they have on the rides themselves. Maybe, they have changed, but manufacturer numbers (like on rcdb) are somewhat hocus pocus as those never really happen. For Magic Mountain's Batman the Ride, they say 1400, but our Batman gets something like 900 or maybe a little more than that, but it's around that - NOT 1400. It's in the perfect setting probably with 6 workers in the station working Batman that it would get 1400 pph. Someone told me American Eagle of 670, so I don't really know if they told me right or not. Most of these signs are either right by the booths of the ride operator, or one time Ricochet was on the metal thing they open and close -you know where the panel is. The times I try to read Dark Knight's, it's blank. So?? The piece of paper is a laminated paper, and it says something like capacity, and than people they actually got that hour. So, basically, go close by the main operator booths, and you should find a sign. The Dark Knight sign is on a pole - not right by the main operator though.
If 800 is an actual number in operation, this wouldn't be too bad, but if it's a hocus pocus manufacturer number, than it probably isn't worth getting this ride. Though, if the Dark Knight can have a 4 seater, and get as BP says 700-800 a hour, than that's pretty good in my opinion comparing it to a Euro Fighter. The thing is the more cars you can run in a course and the number of people of train you have, obviously the more capacity the ride is going to have. If rides are constantly set out in an interval like the Dark Knight, the better the capacity is going to be because for the most part, there is no stopping. Yes, Batman the Ride has 32 seats for one train, but it's stopping for at least 1 minute, and maybe even more than that for a reason or another.
If this Euro Fighter can have the 6 people per train like screamscape says (like on the Euro Fighter called Huracan) they have made one like that, than I think 800 is realistic with this ride. If this Euro Fighter will be on a conveyor belt type of line, and thus you have 2 trains in the course during 1 minute because it's about a minute ride (a block section in the half point), that's 12 people minus some empty seats here and there per minute. Though if they get the 8 seats per train which I think would even be better like Speed: No Limits at Oakwood Park, I think the capacity could even be better than 800. However with 8 people on a train, could it be conveyor belt style? That's a lot of harnesses to check in a short time? I don't know.
Anyway, though I think this Euro-Fighter would cost about $5 million. I get that amount from the length of Speed: No Limits, and Six Flags Over Georgia's Euro Fighter. Spongebob is 700 feet shorter, so it's cheaper. I think this is a great addition if the capacity is going to be around 800 really, and I hope they go to a lot of the Six Flags parks!
And to BP, why can't it have 8 people per train? Speed, Saw, and Mystery Mine have 8 people per car, and they have vertical lifts??
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
If Batman is only getting 900/hour there is no way TDK is that close to it. I'm wondering if 700-800 is that manufacturers number you are talking about. If this DDD can get 12 per minute X 60=720/hour but that's with no empty seats, and this ride will be a little more cumbersome to get into than either of the batmans. They could save time by not checking restaints, like Disney or Universal do, but that might be a first for 6 flags. Batman can mathmatically do 960/ hour with just 30 trains. 32x 30=960. That's only one every 2 minutes. I would think they could dispatch sooner than every 2 minutes.
I'm wondering if 700-800 is that manufacturers number you are talking about.
http://www.mack-rides.com/lang-en/c121/default.html Mack lists it at 1,000. When we opened it it was doing 600-700/hour and that was only with 6 cars, later in the year it was re-programmed and added more cars and the throughput went up. I think it ran 10 for awhile, don't know if it does anymore. And the capacity that the manufacturer lists is typically what it would be if trains were sent out at every dispatch interval with all the seats filled for an entire hour.
All right, I'll take your word on TDK. You know more about coasters than I do. I just can't see this SFOG DDD having much more capacity than TDK. It would have to have the 4 across trains and Disney/universal techniques. This DDD has been brought up on a magic mt forum I was looking at today, as a perspective addition, and dozens of people have voiced concerns over limited capacity, so it's not just me.
I wouldn't doubt it having bad capacity at Magic Mountain, just because it's Magic Mountain. If you want to see some totally ****ed up design and operation on a major attraction go look at Terminator Salvation. The preshow/queue path after it are too small resulting in one out of every three trains going out half empty. I would hope they figured this out by now but the summer it opened I waited quite literally in an hour+ line watching half empty trains go by. I don't think the team that was responsible for that ride has ever heard of industrial engineering.
That's the same way I feel about Superman Ultimate Flight here. 7-8 empty seats on every train, many times with a whole row open. I'll only ride the thing first or last in the day, otherwise it's not time efficient.
It's a completely different situation with SUF. Terminator sends the last 6 rows of the train completely empty. SUF has a lot of empty seats because few people at SFGAm know how to fix the broken seats (or don't have the time/budget to) since they require a lot more attention than a normal coaster restraint. As a result when seats are bypassed people split their groups up. For example, if there is one bypassed seat a group of 4 will go 2 and 2 so one person doesn't have to ride alone, and 2 leaving empty seats on both trains, or don't go on that train at all when the gates open because there are not enough seats for them. That's a problem with SFGAm's maintenance budgeting not with the industrial-engineering or design aspect.
There are probably flashpass errors that contribute too. This is why a single rider line would have been very helpful for SUF. I've seen what you are talking about when I have been on Terminator too, but I have never had to wait that long for it.
For V2 alone, and the target capacity, I can tell you how they got that number 630, but I think what it's really getting is lower than that. 630 is the target capacity SFGAm wants. It takes 1:30 just to wait for the ride to be launched, and that's whether or not the ride crew is done checking people by than, and it takes about a minute just for the ride cycle. (Well, it's a tiny less than a minute, but still) You add the spiels, and you can add closing the gate (by the worker), and that will add some time too. So, what I'm looking at is 25 people probably at most for every cycle (with 3 empty seats), and thus 2 times of that would mean 50 people for every 5 minutes, and that would be the best. However, with the spiels alone, it's longer than 5 minutes, but in best case scenario without spiels let's say 5 minutes for 50 people.
So, you say it takes 12 times of 5 minutes to equal 60 minutes, and thus 12 * 50 = 600 people per hour, but again with spiels, and if they are a little slower or because of situations I think it might only be getting 550 a hour. And the manufacturer says 1100 which is funny because that's not happening. V2 could have a little better capacity if they didn't wait 1:30 for every cycle, but it's about heat the ride generates, and sending it too fast, it's going to stop working, and than they will have to reset the ride, and blah blah.
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
