Alright, I think right now everyone has a "comment" on management, and I'd like an open discussion for everyone to discuss that. This could range from Park management, to Corporate Management.
For me, my only 'beef' is with corporate. Don't get me wrong, Al Weber is a fine gentleman and has years of good experience in the market. I just don't think he understands what Six Flags needs right now. Six Flags needs a re-surgence. (sp?) For this to come about, every one of the Six Flags parks needs to receive an addition that would bring people in all year. Not for just the peak season, but the entire season. Sure a large expansion of Hurricane Harbor is great for attendance, but HH is only open daily for three out of the six months the park operates. So this is definitely a downfall.
I will have more to say soon. But for now, I'd like to hear your comments on management.
MOD Note: Moving topic to General forum as this is about Six Flags as a whole
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Thoughts on Management
23 posts
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Ahhhhhhhh where to start, where to start. I agree with everything you just said David. I dont see why we need a huge waterpark with the climate we live in. Yes, that means im totally shutting down Wisconsin Dells, but there, they got indoor waterparks which can run all year long. This will hopefully be the last add on to HH for a longggg time. Corporate, is just focused on making money. Thats obviously there number one priority. Truthfully, i dont think they give a hoot about what we say/want anymore. WE fanatics want bigger, beter, newer rides, to give us the maximum thrill. But will that bring in the most money??? No, we all know that family rides and attractions will bring in the most $$$ and the most amount of people. So truthfully, i cant blame corporate for all the B.S kiddie attractions we have been getting the last few years, because well, money talks.
They're number one priority right now is getting out of debt. Then it will be making a good image for the parks/rebuilding the parks to their potential. Its going to be a long, lengthy process that you guys are going to complain and whine through. But hey, would you rather have the chance of liquidation?
Personally I think Weber is doing a phenomenal job right now. He has his priorities straight. Am I pissed with the cut backs. The raised prices. Hell f#*kin yeah! Who wouldn't be? But I'm not going to rant about it because I know that these cut backs need to happen in order for the parks to grow and get to where they need to be. And like I said before, it will be a long and lengthy process. A water park expansion will rake people in even more and they can set the prices up higher and they can get out of debt even faster. The sooner they're rich as can be, the better we are. How long may that take? The SEC filings are saying around 2015 I believe that everything will be all settled. Now david, can I ask. Why are you commenting on the matter before anything about 2011 was even announced yet? I'm just curious because you're basing what you're saying off of rumors right now. Last edited by acquaz10 on August 28th, 2010, 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
But here's the thing. Why does our park which has been receiving family attractions for the past 5 or so years, not get a little reward with a thrill ride. I mean, I would have settled for anything to tell you the truth. Even a Tony Hawk's Big Spin. But a park like Great Adventure (Not arguing here, just stating a point) is getting the thrill ride we were supposed to get? Did they even try out the whole, "Family friendly!" outlook?
(auto-INcorrect there, 'phonemail'. I chuckled.) I'm going to set 2013 as the year when Six Flags settles the majority of their debt, and only has a small load. Rumors, eh? You didn't see the leak, did you?
Still... When were out of debt, i still dont expect to see many more coasters poping up anytime soon... I mean thats exactly what got SF in debt, and i doubt they will take any chances going down that path again.
Well, Six Flags started their Coaster craze when they were still in deep debt. This only got them further in. Adding coasters isn't a big strain on a financially responsible company. I think Six Flags could add a coaster to every single park if they had $0 debt. And still stay safe with no debt, because they would be making profits to make profits. Not to pay off a growing debt burden.
To EVERY park!!!! Hmmm im not sure about that, but i like the way your thinking lol. I would say they could easily add a flat to prob. every park, and also a few coasters to a few lucky SF parks, but that would be in the future, not right now.
Didn't notice that phonemail haha. I had phenomenal. Stupid Google. Back on topic: '05 Kingda Ka - Burke '06 El Toro - Shapiro but bought by Burke '07 Wiggles World - Shapiro '08 TDK - Shapiro '09 Bizarro - Shapiro '10 Tornado - Shapiro '05 Whole waterpark - Burke '06 Tornado - Burke/Shapiro '07 Wiggles World - Shapiro '08 TDK - Shapiro '09 Buccaneer Battle Shapiro '10 Little Dipper Only years that are different are the Burke years which are unfair. Well only 2006 is really only unfair. But then I could go say that Little Dipper vs Tornado isn't fair too. It goes both ways. Stop living in the past and complaining about it. All the Shapiro years in my POV were pretty fair. Last why must you turn every single thread into a VS. GADV THREAD?
SFGAm already has a standup coaster and it's probably the least popular coaster in the park. Adding another one, regardless of whether it's better or not, would be pointless because its a niche ride that people already have a pre-perception that they are going to dislike and not only loses draw power it also is a redundant ride in the park (actually Iron Wolf would be, but either way one of them is). Plus the standing factor does not make the ride any better and it was probably determined the cost of converting it to sitdown or floorless was unfeasible therefore building it at SFGAm would be silly, especially after building 2 mice.
Weber's team probably figured since it's a used ride and also happens to be really big, why not put it in the biggest market to milk the attendance boost since it's a cheap addition. Also i'm sure 99% of the people that go there don't even remember, or are too young to remember, their other standup coaster because it was so long ago.
For Chang, going to Great Adventure, it doesn't bother me that much. What bothers me is that they are taking a 3rd train from Riddler's. That park is open most of the year, and in my opinion it needs an extra train just because of refurbishing purposes. If you want another, just buy another one Six Flags! For the loop waterslide, I see it as last minute decision type of thing. Six Flags doesn't like to buy cheaper flat rides, and they aren't going to buy a roller coaster in such short notice. It takes time just for a company to make a roller coaster a lot longer than it takes for them to make a waterslide. It would be a simple decision to go out and buy a Flying Bobs from usedrides.com, and get it for a $120,000, and people would like it, but Six Flags like Cedar Fair goes for brand new, and than they spend $5 - $8 million on a flat. I don't get it. People don't know if a ride is used or not. And if a ride like the Flying Bobs is such a terrible ride, than why was I waiting in a 15-20 minute line at a carnival to ride it?
Shapiro, I didn't like at all. It's very hard to see what's going to happen with this new guy though. There are no new attractions I know of confirmed except for Chang, and we are getting something for Hurricane Harbor. And a lot of these attractions being built for next year like a Tony Hawk for instance were already in progress while Al Webber came on board, so those things go through no matter what. What's going to happen with all the ads next year? Will this guy get rid of the lockers? Is he going to change something around with the characters? Will prices to get in the parks change? Will there be more shows next year (Southwest Ampitheater)? What will happen to the Pictorium? (SBNO?) Will the funatics program still have perks? Will Fright Fest be terrible because it's in-house? "I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
Currently the ads aren't all that bad ride now. Lockers I see staying, sorry. Characters aren't changing, why would they. What would change? Obviously prices in the park will change. They already have. What you're seeing now is probably what they will be like all next year. I don't know about shows, he doesn't seem like that type of guy. Anyone know if there were a lot of shows/concerts in the Paramount days? I still think there will be a ton of concerts though. Funatics program is on schedule to come back. Fright Fest- depends on the park. Corporate has little to nothing to do with it.
Okay,
A large stand-up coaster like Chang or Riddlers or whatever, does not need 3 trains. Hell IW continually stacks trains and that thing only has 2 of them and a helluva lot shorter track. Also, how in gods name can you put Weber's feet to the fire already when the man hasn't even been with the company 6 months yet. That in itself is ridiculous, let the man really mess up or something first, because right now short of SFGAm not getting Chang (which I see is the only reason why some of you people are pissed off  ) Its pretty much been status quo.As for SF not having a lot of debt after the bankruptcy? Uh, really they are still $830 Million in debt right now. Thats not a little amount by any stretch of the imagination 
David,
I also think you just proved my point pretty much the last line of your opening statement.
Six Flags still has a large amount of debt, 830 million dollars. but adding something like a HH expansion to the park, while I know we all want a B&M coaster. Is the smart move. When you have a money making formula like HH, you stick with what works. The only way a resurgence of Six Flags will ever happen is moves like your seeing now. Adding piece-meal attractions to parks that will draw upon the parks individual strengths. I.E. SFGAm's HH. SFGAdv's coasters etc etc. Once that happens, and the company trims more of its debt load then you'll see a modest expansion of the park.
I know I should keep to myself but this thread is absolutely freaking ridiculous..
Around the world and back
For prices, I'm talking about season passes prices, and prices to get in the park. They still have the deal of Get in the park at kids prices which is kind of ridiculous to undervalue the parks in my opinion. For the characters, Shapiro did something with them every year almost. He had characters signs, he had so many characters and than the one season he ran out of funds with them, and just so on and so forth. And Galvan you misunderstood why I say don't take Riddler's train away? It's because it might take a month or two to refurb each train they have, so what is going to happen, is that it's going to go down to one train because the other train is in refurb for probably 2 months because now they only have 2 trains for Magic Mountain, and than you have another 2 months for the other train for them to work on. It's different when you have a completely empty closed park like Great America has, and they can work on all the trains at one time. Batman the Ride can have 2 trains all year, and never go down to 1 train at all because they have worked on it, but 4 months of Riddler with 1 train is bad in my opinion, and it's longer than Iron Wolf. It's a reason why Deja Vu is closed for sometime because they only have 1 train. "I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
^They will just close Riddler for a couple months if they have to rehab it. Easy as that. Think about it.
Season pass prices are going up. GAdvs prices are listed here. Its complicated for me to explain I think but they're noticeably higher. http://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/ ... npass.aspx Everyone pays kids price is a good promotion I think. Not everyone knows to buy they're tickets online and its a good deal. You made absolutely no sense with you're character explanation. He just ran out of funds with them and so on and so forth? What?
My thoughts on management are that we should give the new Weber crew more than three months to prove their worth.
What logic. And here's what I don't get. While I'm not terribly pleased about HH getting a new attraction when I feel the dry park (there's gotta be a better term than that) should get something, arguing a waterpark in the Midwest shouldn't be getting updated is dumb. Hell, if the Midwest is such a bad place for a waterpark, then it's also a bad place for an amusement park.
I said this in three other threads, but do people have no idea on how to run a business? If you come out of bankruptcy, you NEVER build massive rides as "rewards" for parts of business making tons of money. You put your effort towards less profitable parts of your company. Right now, Six Flags America, SF STL, The Great Escape, SFDK and SFNE deserve rides before Great America.
That said, the plans for 2011 have been great so far. SF Great America gets the water park expansion it needs, SFOT gets the revamp on the Texas giant it needed and Great Adventure gets another coaster to compete in the area. I'm very interested to see what next year holds for SFOG and SFFT.
But that coaster probably should have been removed 5 years ago. It has been replaced by a more reliable and less maintenance centric ride.
Not only that, but when they do get out of this money crisis, I'm almost positive they aren't going back by building these "massive" rides year after year at each of the parks unless they can budget for them and know for sure they can make the payments/have the finances for them. From the look of this topic, the only real reason people are hating on management is because they aren't "being fair" or "giving parks roller coasters/thrill rides". Keep in mind the idea of "thrill ride" is subjective to who you talk to. The average Joe is easily thrilled by rides/attractions that'd you'd easily pass on your 30th+ trip to the park....these are the people the park has a "focus" on per se. They know the Coaster Buffs are there....and will still be there no matter what because while everyone seems to talk about "skipping out" until 2020 (or what have you) you're still going to go next year and enjoy your time.
I agree with you for the most part. SFGAm has different competition than SFGAdv. They have theme park competition as we have waterpark competition, which in retrospect is basically like 7 waterparks put together which is lime 3 theme parks. The only sort of addition that would be great for our waterpark that would be worth it would be a water coaster. By this I mean that launched type that Kalahari in Sandusky, Ohio has. It would be a great investment that would take a moderate attention of the GP. Exactly what we need. If SFGAm could take the same/maybe little less attention than the Dells, we would be the premiere park. An excellent water park, theme park, and hotel. Of course new flats and such, but otherwise I feel we would be fine.
Is the whole thread sprouting from the fact that you didn't get your hand-me-down stand-up, Dave?
Geez. Give the guy some time, he hasn't ADDED anything yet. And this whole "the thrill ride we were supposed to get" thing is getting pretty old. It was never set in stone. Now, if Chang were under construction and then they stopped, took it down, and moved it to GADV - that would be bad. The only thing that showed up was the trains. How did you know they were going to just use them on Iron Wolf? So far, Weber seems alright. I have to see what he does, but I'll like him if he gets rid of all the ads all over the park, builds rides with theming, and has themes that relate to the themed area they're in. I won't like him if he cuts back park hours, adds off-the-shelf rides, and puts more ads up. We'll see what happens.
They obviously had no plans to add Chang. With just these items:
- Coaster Trains - Coaster Track - Coaster Station - Coaster Supports - Blueprints - Zoning Board Meeting Obviously, no intention to add Chang. Just storing it.
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