New updates regarding management changes at Six Flags are flooding in this week. For starters, it has been confirmed that Six Flags has cut three top execs (Michael Antinoro – Exec. VP of Ent/Marketing, Andrew Schleimer – Exec VP of Strategic Development and Mark Quenzel – Exec VP of Strategy and Mgmt.)… all of which came in with connections to either Shapiro or Snyder. The article also confirms that the offices are going to slowly be moving to the Dallas area, starting with Weber himself who is ready to move before the end of the season. Back in New York… I’m told that 20 other job cuts were made this week from the NY office, along with a rumored 10 more from the Dallas corporate office. Now it seems that Six Flags will be keeping some office people in New York from certain divisions of the company, which is thought to mostly be marketing related positions, but the primary majority of the labor will be handled from the Texas office. I’ve been told that the writing is thought to be on the wall for quite a few people in New York, who are safe for the time being (the next 90 days) due to some rules in place to prevent a massive and complete workforce layoff. However after the 90 day window expires, a larger workforce reduction is expected, which also happens to fall perfectly into place when Six Flags hits the end of their 2010 season.
David I know you disliked Mark and all but he was going to give us a "new" ride for 2011. For what he had to deal with and the cards he was dealt, I think he did a good job. I would ALSO favor parks wich brought in more people and $$. That is logic in business.
As much as I disliked his practices, he did do a fantastic job on the money side of things. He just didn't understand the fact that leaving an attraction in is better than having an empty spot (Splash Water Falls). I think the fact that Shapiro was about making a big mark (haha), that's why he badly wanted Magic Mountain to have their 17 coasters and tie the record. To tell you the truth, who looks at how MANY coasters you've got? It's about what types of coasters you've got. Gadv has a 'legendary' collection, but only has as many as our average-above average collection.
^I thought the reason why the Parmamount gave up on the amusement parks was because they really couldn't increase their profit that much, and it just wasn't worth it. Really, look at what these amusement parks are doing. Every year, or what not they keep on adding millions, and millions of dollars to these parks due to upkeep, and people wanting stuff new. If you own a Burger King, really are they updating their restaurants every year. No, maybe it takes 15 years for them to get a remodel, and they are just having so much profit.
According to Screamscape, what they say is that they are going to trim the hours of operation for the parks on an individual basis (I really doubt our park would get a huge blow to the head by this because of our park being the 2nd most attended Six Flags according to Amusement Today), trim the shows (Well, to me our shows aren't that good anyway, so who cares?), and trim the waterpark hours. I think for the waterpark this is pretty dumb if they start trimming the hours. It's not open enough to begin with, and it seems like their are people in there even though I don't agree about it always being full capacity.
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
^^^Well, was SFNE a well run park or not? I find it funny how a person with the username of demonclowncar says that Weber is making the parks full of despair. Don't you guys understand what happened with Shapiro? What do you think he did with Synder? They said we are taking over, and goodbye Six Flags people, so those are Shapiro's people anyway up there.
And this company needs to start saving money somewhere. This company even after bankruptcy, what still has $1 billion in debt. It's not over with financial woes. This company still needs to make more money. Someone was saying on a podcast that New York is so much more costly to be there than, Dallas, so why stay in New York?
So, right now what this guy is thinking let's trim some hours of our lower attended parks to save some money, and trim other stuff so we make more money. I really think the season pass stuff and pricing with deep discounts is biting them badly, and to make up for it; that's why they sell you ads all over the park, and people can't understand why they are putting sticker things on Demon, Whizzer, billboards that change, and so on. It's because for a season pass, it was like $65, and for that you can go to any Six Flags non-separate waterpark, you get a book with discounts plus bring your friend for free stuff (It doesn't benefit you, but it benefits your friends - $35 for them), and go a lot of times to the park. How do they make a lot of money on season pass holders when the season pass is seen as being really cheap? Do we have the cheapest season pass of any amusement park - any Six Flags?
I mean, people staying for 2 days might feel it's worth a season pass!! On top of it, you have people looking for receipts on the ground to get a season pass for cheaper than $65, and you have people going to St Louis with receipts on the ground for cheaper than what $45 or something like that. Honestly, the ads don't really bother me in order to get the season passes cheaper, but to some it's seen as how could they do this type of stuff. I'm sure for Six Flags America, and Six Flags Great Adventure they do the same thing with cheaper season passes at Six Flags America.
You guys have to think. How are they going to get $1 billion off of the debt? What is the plan to do something like this? To me, you can't keep on running the parks with flop attractions like BB, or the Dark Knight being put in (To me, these are costly flops. It's not like $150,000 for these rides, and oh big deal if it flops.), and not that many people want to ride them. You have to cut some expenses to the park also. I think besides season passes being raised, I think the major additions every year just has to stop. How are they ever going to get out of the hole if they keep on doing that? For the thrill ride, to me the park doesn't need the biggest, baddest and tallest type of ride, but what about a Euro-Fighter, or something from Premier. These shouldn't set you back $15 million or $20 million like B&Ms do, but give the riders some thrill.
For a Euro-Fighter ride, this ride cost about $6 million converted to USA, and it says maximum capacity is 1400. Of course, the capacity gets inflated, and it probably gets 1100, but that's pretty high capacity. http://rcdb.com/2229.htm
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
People always think for a thrill ride you need to dump 25 million like Cedar Fair always does. Mark was right, he said Kingda Ka was never going to be a return on investment and it won't. Waste of money.
Yes, the rides don't have to be very costly, besides, the 15-25 million coasters are usually one trick ponies and the thrills wear off after one ride, while smaller scalers are much more consistent in my opinion. I was more referring to the job cuts with the despair and the despair was just poetic
onyxhotel08 wrote:People always think for a thrill ride you need to dump 25 million like Cedar Fair always does. Mark was right, he said Kingda Ka was never going to be a return on investment and it won't. Waste of money.
In a way, I kind of don't agree with you. Yes, Kingda Ka was a mistake because of it being $25 million, and than after so many problems, that price was up to like $40 million I think. However, if it didn't have that many problems, I think they could have made back that $25 million. Why, it's because I see that ride as an icon type of ride. Holy cow, it goes that high, and it serves the east coaster people saying wow. I think after Top Thrill Dragster came in at Cedar Point, I started going to the park. I didn't even know what Cedar Point was before. I never even heard of it till those Travel Channel shows. And you have to remember that people come to the park based on the full collection of rides, and him saying well we aren't going to make that back this year, but you will have that ride for so much longer than 1 year. I don't know how much Raging Bull was at first, but let's say it's $15 million. Someone might say how would the park pay that off? It's through multiple years of park entrances and what not, but it might still continue to be a bunch of people's favorite ride.
Just looking at our park, you look at how much money they have spent every year, and does it really help with so much stuff? The waterpark was the year attendance really grew, and that's because it's basically a brand new area of the park, and it's about the Wisconsin Dells type of thing to. Six Flags Great America mistakes in my opinion is in 2001 adding 2 roller coasters (Yes, I really liked both, but did they need two in one year?), in 2003 adding a $15 million roller coaster, in 2004 adding another roller coaster with more rides, in 2005 a waterpark, and some year spending like $6.5 million (Maybe, it was a cheaper amount than that, but that's ridiculous for that, and it only lasted a year.) on Operation Spygirl, and so on.
The obsessive we need something this year or people aren't going to come back is just kind of dumb. When's the last ride they added something to the EPCOT, but yet attendance is still up the roof?
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
^I wonder if this guy will understand Cedar Fair's thing about better merchandise on the Internet. Sure, Six Flags has very little, but it's joke. They have 9 t-shirts, and the roller coasters ones are of Kingda Ka, and one is Tatsu. Why are people shopping from Great America going to want Kingda Ka, or Tatsu shirts??
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
onyxhotel08 wrote:People always think for a thrill ride you need to dump 25 million like Cedar Fair always does. Mark was right, he said Kingda Ka was never going to be a return on investment and it won't. Waste of money.
In a way, I kind of don't agree with you. Yes, Kingda Ka was a mistake because of it being $25 million, and than after so many problems, that price was up to like $40 million I think. However, if it didn't have that many problems, I think they could have made back that $25 million. Why, it's because I see that ride as an icon type of ride. Holy cow, it goes that high, and it serves the east coaster people saying wow. I think after Top Thrill Dragster came in at Cedar Point, I started going to the park. I didn't even know what Cedar Point was before. I never even heard of it till those Travel Channel shows. And you have to remember that people come to the park based on the full collection of rides, and him saying well we aren't going to make that back this year, but you will have that ride for so much longer than 1 year. I don't know how much Raging Bull was at first, but let's say it's $15 million. Someone might say how would the park pay that off? It's through multiple years of park entrances and what not, but it might still continue to be a bunch of people's favorite ride.
Just looking at our park, you look at how much money they have spent every year, and does it really help with so much stuff? The waterpark was the year attendance really grew, and that's because it's basically a brand new area of the park, and it's about the Wisconsin Dells type of thing to. Six Flags Great America mistakes in my opinion is in 2001 adding 2 roller coasters (Yes, I really liked both, but did they need two in one year?), in 2003 adding a $15 million roller coaster, in 2004 adding another roller coaster with more rides, in 2005 a waterpark, and some year spending like $6.5 million (Maybe, it was a cheaper amount than that, but that's ridiculous for that, and it only lasted a year.) on Operation Spygirl, and so on.
The obsessive we need something this year or people aren't going to come back is just kind of dumb. When's the last ride they added something to the EPCOT, but yet attendance is still up the roof?
For a ride like Kingda Ka you are bound to encounter problems. It will set u back more than the original price no matter what. When you have so much debt as Six Flags had in the early 2000's when they planned Kingda Ka, it is stupid to spend 25 million on ONE ride for ONE park. I liked Shapiro's idea that for one coaster's 25 million cost he thought you can get 2 decent wooden rides for two parks or a bunch of cool flat rides/ water rides for several parks.
I really doubt that your an amusement park, and you think that your ride is going to cost an additional I think it was like $15 more for Kingda Ka when you buy the ride.
And for Terminator what I heard about people visiting that park is that it's in the same location as Psyclone, and it's brown, and people think it's still Psyclone wooden roller coaster over there. Sure, not all the people believe that, but putting in that location the same color to me is dumb. I feel it's good for the park, but at the same time yet another roller coaster for that park. Do they need anymore roller coasters in general? Has attendance increased dramatically because of that? Also, the speakers aren't lasting on the ride, and are gone. How long till the Bizzaro's speakers come off at SFGAdv and SFNE?
With flat rides besides your Wiggle's Worlds, and your flop of Thomas Town at Magic Mountain, where are they; besides being sold at a ton of parks, or being junked? The Wipeout - Joker something- at SFNE was the ride that came out of the grave, but they junked or sold a ton of other rides over there. For water rides, at SFA they added the Tony Hawk slide, but than they just left some slides unrunning I believe. At SFOT Hurricane Harbor, that had a Mega Wedgie slide which is basically Tony Hawk slide at SFA, but that's not my problem. They already have a Tornado, and basically you do the same type of thing on that slide, so why add that slide?? It's like the Stingray at Noah's Ark. That's why Noah's Ark doesn't have a Tornado. They have that ride.
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
The only reason on-board audio is no longer used on terminator is because of the natural tendency of the wood to be rougher than steel. The whole system gets throw around and what not, and that keeps damaging it. So they just decided to turn it off.
From what has been heard, Terminator was a BIG hit for SFMM in 2009. And I wouldn't call Thomas Town a flop just because #'s did not go up. I never thought they would. Tatsu also failed to increase attendance in 2006. But EVERY park should have some options for families. Even SFMM. You have a first-of-its-kind ride liek Kingda Ka and you don't expect problems??? Just think about the fact that it will go down right when the slightest rain shower comes around.
monsterfan99 wrote:^Or, as show by past examples, Six Flags saw upkeep would cost money and gave up.
I agree with the upkeep type of thing. My guess is that the thing works on a battery, and maybe every year the battery goes dead, so that's 2 large batteries every year. On top of that, it might take extra time for the mechanics to recharge the battery everyday the ride is open, so do you need additional mechanics because they are spending more time on this ride and maybe they can't get to another ride before the park opens. To me, wooden coasters are loud anyway, and could you even hear what they are saying the whole time? To me, all they needed is to do something like Adventure Express at Kings Island where on the lifthill they have speakers there with the sounds/ music. You say the spiel / music on the lifthill, and isn't that enough. You think for a Terminator ride they would have made a hybrid wooden coaster (like Villain).
Disney can do this because they have so many people visiting. When you are a regional park like Magic Mountain or Kings Island, you can't just keep on spending and spending money on things.
"I've been staring at the world, waiting. All the trouble and all the pain we're facing. Too much light to be livin' in the dark. Why waste time? We only got one life. Together we can be the CHANGE. So go and let your heart burn bright"
I don't think the park is worried about $70 batteries. If I'm not mistaken many have said that the on-board audio box is now empty. So It's the system that kept rattling until it breaks itself.
Ilovthevu' wrote:^^^Well, was SFNE a well run park or not? I find it funny how a person with the username of demonclowncar says that Weber is making the parks full of despair. Don't you guys understand what happened with Shapiro? What do you think he did with Synder? They said we are taking over, and goodbye Six Flags people, so those are Shapiro's people anyway up there.
I'm going to answer this with out fanboism. Yes it was an extremely well run park. I'm not going to go into details because it will make me sound like a fanboy haha. If you have been to the park it has the small, family run park feel. Not a big chain park. It doesn't feel like a normal Six Flags park like the others do. Larry Litton was cut because when Shapiro came in, Larry came in to replace the president of Elitch Gardens. Then they sold off Elitch Gardens and Larry was moved up to SFNE, where he did an excellent job and would have kept doing an excellent job if Weber wasn't getting rid of Shapiro/Snyder's friends.
This is where I'm going to start sounding like a fanboy:
Have you guys noticed that Shapiro tested all his new ideas on three - four central parks. Mostly SFNE (his home park as CEO because he lived in CT) GrAm, GrAdv, and MM. I mean those four parks were the first (at least I think) to get a Thomas Town or Wiggles World, in SFNE's case both (ugh). Shapiro tried out experimental characters last season, haven't seen them this season though. I could go into details but it would be to long lol. The jumbotron billboards started popping up at SFNE first, they were their at the end of the '08 season. I don't know its just a thought. Anyways...
So far the audio is doing pretty good on both Bizarro's. One train on SFNE's is a little funky, but it will be fixed in the off season, its just loose wires because of the intamin rattle. GAdvs speakers are also a little fuzzy. Both of the fire's have been decently shortened to save propane cost, but thats expected because both of them were lasting for like thirty seconds.
Weber is just cutting out anyone that had ties to Shapiro. Moving to Dallas will save them more money then staying in Times Square. Its just all about saving money. I think everything he's doing will be good for the long run, even if I don't agree with some of it, like cutting Larry Litton.
Actually, it's a common misconception that his home park was New England. He once said something like, " I love coasters. I grew up riding the American Eagle at my home park of Great America. But as a company, we just can't go about adding these huge thrill coasters, and not expect to enter bankruptcy."
David, you OBVIOUSLY did not read what I said and you're EXTREMELY condescending. I knew he grew up in the suburbs of Chicago going to Great America. He lived in Connecticut as a CEO. So I guess you can say his home parks were SFNE and GAdv. When the SFNE wanted to get rid of Kontiki (its a flying bobs) due to low ridership, his kids really love it so Shapiro made sure they didn't get rid of it.
