rizash wrote:You can't successfully run gam if you only focus on your Chicago and milwaukee customers....
That is their target market with the 3rd largest metropolitan area in the country and who their effort should be spent on. I'm not sure they should be wasting any money on the Rockford or Springfield markets, which they don't in the case of central IL.
And here is where gam has a problem, and why little dipper was the best purchase ever. First time coaster riders over a certain age are not going to ride spacelys sprockets rockets, and whizzer is actually a prety intimidating first coaster (70ft, decent banks and very close to terrain). I bet many people ride whizzer or viper as their first coaster and are scared away from coasters. Even if coaster newbies want to work their way up, eagle is the only other moderate coaster there. Demon and iron wolf are the next tier, but wolf is a stand up, and both bang you around a bit. Not easy to jump to.... Raging bull is the only Orher non looper coaster, and I pity anyone who mistakes bull for less intense than batman superman or v2. Then we have v2, batman, and bull, and all can be intimidating. We only have three steel sit down conventional coasters, and all can scare people off. In truth I think chang will be a nice bridge between batman and bull, and ld is a great starter.... Of course that's only if chang gets converted..... That epic coaster lineup will draw thrill seekers from hundreds of miles, and hh, and other family attractions draw the locals to return, and all areas are successful! I say turn the once every five year visitors to every two year visitors and you could see 4 million visitors every year easy.
Ps: no I didn't forget about Cajun or tdk, they just don't fit in well. Cajun spins, so people like me who dislike spin and puke rides don't like it (lots of parents). Tdk is scary for kids, and a bit agressive for a first coaster (a target for tdk was families, and many parents won't get on/let kids on a ride they are nervous about since they can't see it.
On another, more on topic note.... If six flags plans on selling sfkk (what they own) they need to keep some rides there to make it attractive to buyers. I know t2 is rough, and twisted twins was on their land, but were they really rebuilding twisted twins? It would really suck to have them leave rides there to help sell their park, then have the rides go into disrepair if the land doesn't sell soon. Any word on if anything has been moved from sfkk?
As everyone seems to point out, it wasn't meant for the coaster loving people, it is meant for family enjoyment. Hair pin turns and sudden unexpected dips would make it a bit rough for a first coaster... I think family and first coasters go hand in hand, and tdk doesn't fit either. I know my parents and brother would be quite shaken after tdk....
rizash wrote:And here is where gam has a problem, and why little dipper was the best purchase ever. First time coaster riders over a certain age are not going to ride spacelys sprockets rockets, and whizzer is actually a prety intimidating first coaster (70ft, decent banks and very close to terrain). I bet many people ride whizzer or viper as their first coaster and are scared away from coasters. Even if coaster newbies want to work their way up, eagle is the only other moderate coaster there. Demon and iron wolf are the next tier, but wolf is a stand up, and both bang you around a bit. Not easy to jump to.... Raging bull is the only Orher non looper coaster, and I pity anyone who mistakes bull for less intense than batman superman or v2. Then we have v2, batman, and bull, and all can be intimidating. We only have three steel sit down conventional coasters, and all can scare people off. In truth I think chang will be a nice bridge between batman and bull, and ld is a great starter.... Of course that's only if chang gets converted..... That epic coaster lineup will draw thrill seekers from hundreds of miles, and hh, and other family attractions draw the locals to return, and all areas are successful! I say turn the once every five year visitors to every two year visitors and you could see 4 million visitors every year easy.
In no way, shape or form is SF Great America more than a regional park. To the east/southeast is Cedar Point and Kings Island, to the south/southwest is SF STL and to the North is the Dells and the parks of MN. This is a park that draws from the Chicago area and Milwaukee area. Even central IL, which is 3-4 hours away has never had an add for Great America the entire 20 plus years I lived there. The fact there is zero competition from any park within 2-3 hours is also a reason for the big profits/attendance.
Little Dipper was a genius investment in it gave the park goodwill to the Chicago community. Kiddieland had attendance of almost 500k last year, those people have to go somewhere. The fact it can be used as a kiddie coaster is just a bonus.
Ps: no I didn't forget about Cajun or tdk, they just don't fit in well. Cajun spins, so people like me who dislike spin and puke rides don't like it (lots of parents). Tdk is scary for kids, and a bit agressive for a first coaster (a target for tdk was families, and many parents won't get on/let kids on a ride they are nervous about since they can't see it.
In no way is The Dark Knight marketed as a first coaster. A family coaster means anyone can ride it and enjoy it. Any parents stupid enough to put their child on it when they don't want to ride is stupidity at it's finest.
Also, if a family does not like spinney rides or "aggressive" rides like those two, why the bloody hell do they go to a major theme park? The only rides that would not be in that group are the kiddie coaster, antique cars, bumper cars, BB, the park train, Sky Trek Tower and some kiddie rides. Almost every coaster, flat ride or water ride falls into the spin or aggressive group. This is not a park for families that want family rides, which is a shame.
Thanks monsterfan that proves my point. If they want a family focus, stop getting lame amusement rides and get family rides and attractions. Note: kids rides do not count, neither do low intensity coasters or flat rides. Water parks are much much closer, as I know very few people who dislike water rides. Hh is about the only family geared part of gam.... So their latest plans are misguided. I've seen plenty of commercials in central wisconsin, so maybe they should advertise more! The dells are still a joke compared to six flags (again water parks not being weighed here) Wisconsin has three decent coasters, mn half a dozen more. Why not draw from farther out?
^They don't advertise more out as it would be a complete waste of money. The general public sees a coaster and it is either A) fun or B) not fun. So trying to convince people not to drive 1-2 hours to the Dells or parks on MN and instead drive 3-5 hours to SF Great America is just a waste. With central IL and further south, they do not advertise as it would be competing against SF STL, which does advertise in that area.
SF Great America is not a resort park, this is a park people make a day trip out of. With that said, a typical day trip for a family with kids has people leaving no later than 7 am and home before midnight. Asking someone to make a day trip that starts before 7 am and ends near 2 am (if staying the entire time during summer) is a lot to ask. Specifically when they live near perfectly fine parks.
I think somebody needs put put up or shut up. Either go run an amusement park, or keep your fantasy's to yourself. It'd be interesting to see how long it takes to fail. I'll bet $100 on 6 weeks.
Favorite Wood Coasters: The Voyage, Ravine Flyer II, Thunderhead, Balder Favorite Steel: Voltron Nevera, Steel Vengeance, Expedition GeForce, Olympia Looping Parks visited: 232, Coasters Ridden: Steel: 894, Wood: 179, Total: 1073
Or how about if everyone wakes up to the fact that there is no perfect park, location, ownership, or business plan? Yes I stick to points that are less than solid, but if running a park was easy would sfi cf and others be in bankruptcy? Everybody just step back and chill.
I wasn't bashing rides or business moves, just pointing out that some things are huge question marks. Were tdk rides worth a total of 30 million bucks? Was bb worth 5.5? That stuff ticks me off because it's waste In my opinion. Advertising/trying to draw more customers on the other hand makes sense to me. While I can understand what you're saying about not trying to fight cf parks or sfstl, really the parks in Michigan, Wisconsin, il, and mn are no match. Yes, you should focus the most on family draw and the local metro areas, but don't stop there. That would be just like saying "no more coasters over 60' " or something. You want lifelong repeat customers from all walks of life and these companies failures prove that it is almost impossible to do that.
I hate butting heads with people, but gam could be one of the best parks in the world, if given a chance.
man, 30 million no. BB for 5.5 M I ask where did the $$ go? But Cedar Point gets shoot the rapids for what 10 million and I do think it is not bad considering the comapny behind it.
GrAm could never be one of the best parks in the world. You need to think of how many European parks there are, and asian, there ARE ALOT OF PARKS. A LOT. If Europe and asia sunk, then maybe.
No park is perfect. Every park can be improved. I just think sometimes fans have unrealistic expectations and parks have very little common sense when it comes to what people look for in a park visit once or many times a season.
it does not matter if you go 170 times in 2 years or once a season. You expect the perfect park but there are always things you can improve. We know Shapiro has done A LOT of good for the company but he is only human and we can easily name 10 things he can do better tomorrow. So could he.
^That is the truth. There are always good and bad things to every park.
rizash wrote:Or how about if everyone wakes up to the fact that there is no perfect park, location, ownership, or business plan? Yes I stick to points that are less than solid, but if running a park was easy would sfi cf and others be in bankruptcy? Everybody just step back and chill.
I wasn't bashing rides or business moves, just pointing out that some things are huge question marks. Were tdk rides worth a total of 30 million bucks? Was bb worth 5.5? That stuff ticks me off because it's waste In my opinion. Advertising/trying to draw more customers on the other hand makes sense to me. While I can understand what you're saying about not trying to fight cf parks or sfstl, really the parks in Michigan, Wisconsin, il, and mn are no match. Yes, you should focus the most on family draw and the local metro areas, but don't stop there. That would be just like saying "no more coasters over 60' " or something. You want lifelong repeat customers from all walks of life and these companies failures prove that it is almost impossible to do that.
My question is still the same. How do you convince people to drive 4-6 hours to go to a theme park when they live by one (or more) parks? With those in the Dells/MN area, there are 4 theme parks, Timber Falls and a bunch of water parks. There is no way the average family says "kids, were driving 6 hours past other theme parks to go to Six Flags!" Life simply does not work that way for this park. The Orlando parks, Disneyland & Cedar Point can as they are seen as tourist destinations for the entire country.
The companies failures are not getting people through the gates. Their problems fall in how they spent the money. A park chain can not build 20-100 Million worth of just major coasters every year and expect to make money. Chains can not also just buy parks for the hell of it for a huge price that were not all that profitable to begin with.
I hate butting heads with people, but gam could be one of the best parks in the world, if given a chance.
Not a chance that will ever happen. 100's of ads everywhere, used as basically a day care during the summer by locals, an okay at best coaster collection, a complete lack of family rides and the fact it has Six Flags in it's name prevent that from happening.
I think the only things are park needs to have a killer coaster collection is a high speed coaster (over 100), multi-loper, and a really good custom GCI woodie!
A reader passed by SF Kentucky Kingdom over the weekend and noticed that while all the rides were still in place, it looked like some of the custom Batman scenery in the arena and Looney Tunes signage were being taken down. Rented moving trucks were also visible in the park itself, as Six Flags is likely packing up their possessions and moving out.
One thing that i dont get is this park was barely proftable from the get go. It went under once then switched hands a few times. Now kentucky is all like "well we got plenty of interested parties in this park now". I mean how can anyone make a profit off a park that small? If SF would have Geauga Laked it and made it into just a water park then maybe.
[quote="jackluver18"]^Doesn't have a Signature[/quote]
[quote="Coaster Boy"]My sister locked me in a Car Trunk.[/quote]
[quote="David"]What's really funny, is that you think I'm from the GP (General Public). When indeed, I most likely know far more about the coaster, as I've rode it multiple times. [/quote]
1) The season pass/Big 6 card deal was too cheap. There is no way to make money when your SP is between $30-40 bucks. The park already held people captive as there was no re-entry to get food and come back if you drove in.
2) They get ZERO percent of the parking revenue. Parking is a huge source of income for every park and to take that away just hurts.
3) Removal of items with no plusing. As a park, you can not remove multiple rides and add nothing for 10 years and expect it to last.
I mean, look at Beech Bend Park. Clearly they are making money and have a small park in Kentucky. Their park also charges a decent amount for tickets and SP. Granted, it's location by the drag strip/circle race track is a huge part of it but still.
onyxhotel08 wrote:A reader passed by SF Kentucky Kingdom over the weekend and noticed that while all the rides were still in place, it looked like some of the custom Batman scenery in the arena and Looney Tunes signage were being taken down. Rented moving trucks were also visible in the park itself, as Six Flags is likely packing up their possessions and moving out.
Ed Hart is the one who has made an offer to reopen KK in time for 2011. Will pony up about 3 million and fund 17 million more through public funds needed to rehab the rides. No mention of what the park has in store specificially, but they want to expand the water park (yeah finally) and move the main entrance. hart has 60 days to finalize the deal.
onyxhotel08 wrote:Ed Hart is the one who has made an offer to reopen KK in time for 2011. Will pony up about 3 million and fund 17 million more through public funds needed to rehab the rides. No mention of what the park has in store specificially, but they want to expand the water park (yeah finally) and move the main entrance. hart has 60 days to finalize the deal.
I think Ed hart is the final hope for KK. I can't wait to see the park flourish, and I'm sure he's going to want to get as many rides up as he can. This is some phenominal news.
I thought that he bought the park after it went bankrupt, he added all the current rides and Chang, and then he thought the park was ready for some major advancements, so he handed it off to Six Flags. I really don't know for certain.
