Before you worry about Six Flags' changes, Consider this.

[Galvan]

With the new changes going into effect at Six Flags, I have noticed some people really not liking the direction the company is taking regarding rides, new policies, Fright Fest etc. The next time you start to question things ask yourself this.

When you go to the park:

How much money do you spend?

How much food do you buy there?

How many games do you play?

Do you rent a locker?

Do you rent a stroller?

Do you pay for parking?

Did you pay the gate admission price?

Chances are VERY good that you didnt pay for most of those things when you where at the park.

And thats the point, Six Flags wants to make money, period.. They dont make money on teenagers, mainly because Teens dont have the money to spend in the first place.

Consider this:

When I visit the park, I pay $0 for parking, $0 for admission, $0 for a locker, $0 for games, and usually $0 for food, maybe ill buy a beer while im at the park which i think is $4.99 so for the time im at the park, they have lost -$44.99 for admission -$10.00 for parking, we'll estimate -$7.00 for games and -$7.00 for food.

not even factoring in strollers and gifts etc thats at least -$68.99 that Six Flags lost on me alone.

Now consider a Family of 5 going to the park.

+$10.00 for parking, $44.99 x 3 adults ( One kid that over 54 inches and the mom and dad) $29.99 x 2 (2 kids under 54'' inches) Lets say $14.00 for games and $35.00 for food. that is a grand total of $253.95 not even factoring strollers and gifts etc.

So if your Shapiro head of a company that is $2.1 BILLION dollars in debt and you see Mike Galvan spending -$68.99 and you see Family ABC spend $253.95+ in your park. You dont need an slide rule to figure out why Six Flags is going to gear EVERYTHING towards families and well it should.

[Danhockey04]

I agree with you completely, I also have made a comparison too like that in a previous topic, but it was about price raises. Families will always spend more money because they have the kids always complaining for something. Also, think about it, it could be a plus to draw more families than teens into the park for us. Why? How many families do you know that bring their children want to ride all the coasters, kids are afraid, lines may be shorter on coasters and longer for flats, I'm not the one going to complain. Even if lines are longer overall, I usually go to the park to ride the rides early, walk around in the afternoon just being there, talking to employees, and playing arcade games, unless it is empty, I will ride rides. I enjoy just walking around the park, but that's me, I also went over 50 times last year, but still, I enjoy just being there. THe atmosphere and good times with friends, meeting people from these sites, it is a load of fun when you go and not have the mind set where you have to ride everything. Mornings and nights are always the best times to ride anything, lines are short, the weather is nice, and night rides are always the best. Make time go by quicker by going to the water sprayers at Roaring Rapids, see a show, they are interesting, take a nap in Pictorium, or just stroll around looking for a short line, cause there is always one short line in the park. Also, if you want to ride something and everything has long lines, go to either BTR or Bull (3 train), those are the quickest moving lines in the park. Families are great to the park, and I see the average coaster line like Bull and Vu get shorter if they draw in more families and less teens. Though Hurricane Harbor will be at max almost everyday cause of the families, but how often do you go to SFGAm to go to HH, I only go when it is cold out cause then HH is empty. Families are gold, cause they bring in a profit unlike a typical ACEr or any other sort of enthusiasts or most teens in general.

[coastercrazy111]

That makes SO Much sense! I mean honestly I am completely for Shapiro. I am glad he is taking the company in the direction that he is!
I hope to see many more good things from him.

[Galvan]

Dan,

With my formula you cost Six Flags about $3,449.50 last year.

Way to go man!

[msoeagle]

Yeah thats so true, Six Flags is making the right choice.

[FRD714]

Makes sense.

[pennyroyalest]

What teens do have is disposable income, more so than adults.

They do get your season pass and parking pass money, don't they?

They keep track of how many times a season pass holder goes to a park, and advertisers keep paying Six Flags to advertise their merchandise.

Yes, these new plans will make a lot more money. But it's not like we're a drain on the company, though.

[Galvan]

Actually we are a drain on the company, which is the whole reason why they are focusing on families in the first place.

And teens having disposible income is far less the adults.

Your a teen im sure, do you have 3 to 5 credit cards like the average adult? Do you make more then $50,000 per year?

Thought Not.

[Sireze]

That makes so much sense. I finally understnd why six flags is doing the things what they are doing.

[Danhockey04]

Dan,

With my formula you cost Six Flags about $3,449.50 last year.

Way to go man!

wOOt!!

But I did buy food there, about $7 average, so that is about $380, so they still lose money on me, YA!

[Rusty888]

One time I went to SFGAm and didn't spend a penny there, but not only did I not spend any money; I found 5 pennies on the ground that day making a profit of $.05 and riding my favorite rides! God, I'm awesome!

[Ilovthevu']

No matter what, you still don't want to lose those teens in the park. Fine keep it cool with the roller coasters for a little bit, but you still need them to come back year after year. Look at the capacity these roller coasters take an hour. That is a whole lot of people, and that kinda shows you how many teens are actually in the park. 1560 people are on Raging Bull supposedly an hour, and I would say that alot of them are teens.

You can't just go stone cold with one age group. Who says that every single teen is a season pass holder. My cousin used to go once a year, and pay for admission tickets. Just because many teens on this site might have a season pass, does not mean that all teens do. Teens can also be part of the family also in some cases.

I enjoy some of those family flats alot, and don't see them being overly burdened with people. Ricochet, Bumper Cars, and East River Crawler are probably the only ones that ALWAYS seems to be burdened with alot of people. When the park gets completely crowded, everything is packed. However, before then, I don't see any family flat stretching over one cycle besides those two. And yet, the other SF's don't seem to have Octopuses or Ricochet (Huss Swing Around) in any of the parks:?: An octopus ride might be in two or three other parks

The family flats I ride are Condor, Triple Play, STT, Chubasco, Ricochet, Fiddler's Fling, The Orbit, Hometown Fun Machine, BEB, and, Whirlgig. Last time I heard that they only have one train going. The water rides are usually crowded, but that's a ride for anyone.

CAD is a perfect example of seeing how many teens are in the park. The Demon was hardly crowded the first and only time I went to the CAD event. There are so many teens on these roller coasters. Dump the roller coasters, or don't add more, and you lose alot of people. Disney just added a 100 million coaster for goodness sakes. SF shouldn't be Disney because they don't have the resources to be it.

They don't have a Disney studio having all these different characters to deal with. How can you make a "Disney" ride on Superman and Batman. They are more geared for teens. However, I don't really think that SF does enough incorporating these characters into there park.

Is Kinda Ka really worth 50 million dollars? To me, it's not. I havn't been on it, but I would say that TTD was worth 25 million. I don't think a ride is worth more than 25 million though. That's doubling the ride price that is at Cedar Point. Now for SFOG, $20 million is not really that bad of a price to spend even though I think they need more flats than anything else. It's called quality!! Shapiro believes in cheap coasters. I can't wait till we get our SLC!! I wonder why SFMM, SFGAdv, and SFGAm are at the top.

It's a puzzle to me (cough, quality????????) It's kinda of funny that each of those parks have three or more B&Ms. I know why SFOG isn't on there? It's sad. It's the way that the park is run. Two of the three also have D Vu'.

[Mr. SFGAm]

Galvan316: Awesome example!:)

Instead of complaining about the coasters that we may not get within the next few years, lets take time to enjoy the coasters we have at the moment.

For those who complain about there being no new coasters; you never know when this new management might decide that one of our major coasters(Demon, IW, V2, or Vu perhaps?) can take the fall for a major new family attraction? I don't think it will happen, but my point is... enjoy what we already have before complaining about what we won't get in the future.

Six Flags is starting down the right path. PKI hasn't gotten a major coaster since 2000. Italian Job is the kind of coaster that most enthusiasts could take or leave, but the GP seems to love it. PKI is going on 6 years without an extreme coaster, and every one since then has been either a kiddy coaster or a family coaster, and that doesn't seem to be hurting that park at all.

If Six Flags starts on the trend of building more kids rides, family rides, waterslides, and moderate thrill rides, they are going to really see a turn around.

As Galvan said... More families = more $$$.

[twixmix0303]

Okay, who ever said oust the teens?

All that Shapiro said is that the parks will become more family friendly.

He didn't say anything about getting rid of teens.

[mschulz5]

There are 11 teen-oriented roller coasters for teens to ride.

And guess what? None of them are going anywhere. So quit crying about nothing for teens to do.

[FRD714]

Those 3 rides mentioned arent going anywhere anytime soon. Especially V2 and Vu. Even though Vu has some downtime problems, its still a good ride.

Shapiro just walked around the park last weeked and said he liked what he saw. That means nothing is going anywhere and we will most likely be getting new family rides and expansions to HH.

[zjohn1988]

You never know when this new management might decide that one of our major coasters(Demon, IW, V2, or Vu perhaps?) can take the fall for a major new family attraction?

Umm...if anything will happen, kiddie areas will get new attractions and the areas will probably be expanded. Major rides wont be removed bud....

[SFaddiction84]

Its not really that we DONT have the money its that we know better, we know how to make up for things

Which would you chose
1. Locker or Hand Stamp to Free Car: Hand Stamp to Free Car
2. Over priced small quantity food? or FREE Cooler with what ever you want (soda, food, snacks)
3. Games? Free Handstamp and reentry to the parking lot, lets to go GURNEE mills while its busy and SHOP! Shopping is better!!!

[SFGAmfreak4life]

Shapiro has a great idea. All of the coaster hungry people on this board should be supporting this. If Six Flags kept pumping coasters into the parks then that would eventually lead to the parks demise. Adding only family rides allows the current coasters to still operate and helps Six Flags get back on its feet. Once it is safe for Six Flags to build new coasters I'm sure they will be worth the wait. So for now just enjoy all the great coasters at the park and look forward to a positive future.

[Galvan]

You never know when this new management might decide that one of our major coasters(Demon, IW, V2, or Vu perhaps?) can take the fall for a major new family attraction?

Umm...if anything will happen, kiddie areas will get new attractions and the areas will probably be expanded. Major rides wont be removed bud....

Zjohn, you say that with a little bit of blind faith, a Classic example of that is PGA (Fittingly enough the other Great America)

Stealth was what 3 years old, when that park removed it for what else? Waterpark expansion. Families are what drives the Amusement Park business... Walt Disney World is the perfect example of this.

[Mr. SFGAm]

^^Exactly what I was trying to point out... You just never know. I don't believe any of those rides are going anywhere,

So everyone can just calm down before jumping down my throat. I was just trying to make a point to the people that complain about no new coasters and such. The point is that anything can happen, so why not just enjoy the coasters we have, instead of complain about what we may or may not get in the future.

[Ilovthevu']

Isn't Paramount selling all there parks? What went wrong over there? In my opinion, the hole in SF's philosophy was never that they had bought too many thrill rides, it is just they didn't know what rides to buy, and thus attendance has been down at a lot of these smaller parks.

The big parks get all the "goods," and the rest have hand me downs, or cheap coasters. SFStL is starving for rides including both rollercoasters, and family flats. SF excuse is that they don't get enough revenue. Well, duh!! The less rides, the less revenue they will get. SFStL is not in desert city.

My philosophy is that cheap does not always equal good. The 20 million Goliath scares me. It seems like SF new ownership next coaster is the 10 million and under category. Hey, Shapirio that have a good deal at Santa's Village (Typhoon).
http://www.italintl.com/detail_page.php?record_id=425

^That seems like the category of coaster you want to buy. This category includes SLC's, mice, regular boomerangs, and hand me downs. I just want another Mind Eraser in our park!!! (not)

I'm fine with the kids stuff, but don't tell me that you don't want to spend money to get a good coaster in the park anymore.

[Galvan]

^Paramount is selling its parks because CBS is shedding assests. NOT because of what you listed above.

Your post is the whole reason why I posted this in the first place. You're failing to see that its families NOT teenagers are the ones spending the most money in the park.

Your post then gets very arrogant, Shapiro isnt stupid, the focus on families isnt because he hates rollercoasters, Its because unlike you, he see families as a way to bring in big rollercoasters NOT kiddie rides.

Think of it this way.

Six Flags wants to add a new 20 million dollar coaster at a Six Flags park.

Which scenario would you prefer?

A. Six Flags builds the 20 million dollar coaster at whatever park, but because of the non focus on the family element. Several of the parks other attractions are closed because the maintence budget for the park was used up in the construction of the new ride.

B. Six Flags builds coaster after coaster year after year and the thrill rides spring up like dandelions, In the mean time, park attendence falls dramatically and Six Flags is forced to sell and close many under performing parks including one popular park outside a major US City.
But, theres plenty of new coasters in place.

OR

C. Six Flags carefully examines who spends the money in the park, and they find out that familes are the ones who are spending millions in the parks each year. So Six Flags focus there attention on the cash cow, Familes. Stock Prices sky rocket, Six Flags makes profits and earns considerable amounts of money. 2 to 4 years down the line Six Flags is now able to offer thrill riders multi-million dollar attractions only a few years down the line. And along with those million dolllar investments, theres more then enough money in the budget for other park improvements, maintence and employees are now able to get a pay raise. Which improves customer relations even more which makes familes spend more which in turn MAKES SIX FLAGS MORE MONEY!

In case your wondering:

Scenario A is a real life occurance where you say? Six Flags Magic Mountain outside of Los Angeles.

Scenario B. Has been how Six Flags has been running things since at least 1999. And that system of doing business has failed miserably. Ask the people in Houston how much fun they are going to have this year at Astroworld.

[Ilovthevu']

Looking at those rides, I can see why they didn't have much fun. Two of them were hand me downs, in which one didn't work for a year. 1999 and 1998 were the last rides inserted into the park. Serial Thriller is your beat up SLC coaster. Iron Dragon was boring at Cedar Point, so I don't expect it to do be any better at Astroworld. I heard bad reports on Batman the Escape, and I heard something bad about Ultra Twister.

Our Tidal moved from place to place like anything. It moved to SFOG, and is now at SFKK which probably didn't help the park as it went down from the million mark.

You need another scenario with SF adding bad rides year after year. They are probably still going to do it. SFMM still has one of the highest attendance out of all parks believe it or not. I agree to bring in the family rides also, but don't get away from what you hopefully(SF) in some circumstances do best. I agree that is completely stupid to have Flashback standing there as useless as possible. Tear it down already.

[Galvan]

^ You are failing to realize the point. Maybe youll never get it, maybe you just dont want to get it but heres the bottom line.


Six Flags is a business, Businesses make money, money is the reason why Six Flags or any business is in business in the first place.

The way things where going at Six Flags for many years. made Six Flags LOSE money.

So if a business whose whole point is to make money isnt making money, they need to change things to make that money.

Hence the changes at Six Flags.



People, this is the real world, NOT Rollercoaster tycoon, just because in that game you place down 5 new coasters and your attendence goes up in your little computer park doesnt mean its going to translate in the real world.

Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse drives people and familes to Theme parks alot more then 400 foot tall rollercoasters.