If Superman went where it was originally planed to.

[Radical-Illusion]

Sorry if this is a repeat, I looked my hardest to find a similar subject.

I was wondering how different you think that the park would be if the Whizzer was actually tore down and superman was in its place. That means Shockwave wouldn't have been demolished at the time it was. (Im guessing it would be gone by now)

Thoughts??

[DejaVu2001]

Superman would be marginally more interesting than it is now, but still not as good as Whizzer, and ShockWave would still be gone (I'd guess somewhere around 2009-2011). Lose-lose

[JimPanky]

Superman in Whizzer's spot would be cool. If Shockwave still would have closed than it would be a waste to lose Shockwave and Whizzer.

[Ilovthevu']

What's interesting to me I guess is that since Six Flags was going to get rid of Whizzer, look at what they were / did put in the next year after Superman came in. They put in another "family" coaster (Ragin Cajun), than Big Easy Balloons, and Jester's Wild Ride. I know there are the other 2 thrill rides too, but it's sort of like we know that people liked Whizzer, and thus we are going to give you something else for it. Than, another year after that, another big family thing (I know older people enjoy it too, but you see a lot of families too.) - the waterpark. These parks usually plan this stuff years in advance, so in 2 years they might have an idea what SFGAm is getting.

I agree that Shockwave still would've been gone. Maybe, they would have put X-Flight in it's spot instead of taking out the antique cars. Splash Water Falls probably would have been still taken out because of that stupid Buccaneer Battle (too many water rides in the regular park) attraction. Put the Go-Karts into where Splash Water Falls was, and than the kids area for Looney Tunes probably would have got dumped for the stupid Wiggle's World instead of the American Eagle tent.

[JimPanky]

I enjoyed the old American Eagle area and I LOVED Great America Raceway! It was one of my favorite attractions! Im usually a big thrills guy but Im a sucker for tracked car rides like Tomorrowland Speedway.

[JimPanky]

And you have to have family rides. Younger guests need something to go on and if you have nothing for them families are less likely to come out. I see the same thing as you. I think they got the point with the Whizzer outcry and beefed up the family stuff because of it. Could be wrong, but it does seem that way.

[Ilovthevu']

^My whole beef with Wiggle's World was that they just bought such similar rides as the rides the park already had in which they didn't need Wiggle's World. The park has tea cups, the park has Sky Trek Tower (comparable to the Apple things), and the park had helicopters (in Looney Tunes). To me, that was just the dumbest addition. Add the little drop tower, but add it to Looney Tunes, or Cartoon Network. They didn't need the net area in Looney Tunes area. And than new ownership came, and they took the Wiggle's out of theming? I don't get it.

I'm afraid that's what's going to happen with a Sky Screamer, that the park is going to get eventually. Which ride are they going to get rid of for it? Condor / Sky Trek Tower / Big Easy Balloons / Whirligig / Ricochet. The park has so many swing rides or observation rides that would be very similar to the Sky Screamer. The park doesn't need that ride!! in my opinion, the park should get a thrill ride that could also be for kids like a Wipeout, a Tilt-A-Whirl, or a Flying Bobs. Location should be in Southwest Territory where Trailblazer was / support is. Quite frankly, I don't even get why Sky Screamers / Windseekers are being put up all over the country. It just doesn't make sense to me. I've been on both and to me, they aren't all that. They should be for parks that don't have an observation tower or swings. Though, I think those red observation towers at Six Flags Over Texas & Magic Mountain are kind of dumb. Go up in an elevator, look around, go down. Those I wouldn't mind them replacing for a Sky Screamer as that would make more sense. Yet, SFOT is getting a Sky Screamer, and still having the Oil Derrick observation elevator thing. ????

[JimPanky]

Well I think Sky Screamer would be better than Whirligig.

[JimPanky]

And I agree with Wiggles being similar. They went towards family stuff but Wiggles world wasn't the answer. It just shows that they seemed to changed their focus to keep thrill and family. I go for thrill but a park needs family too.

[DeathbyDinn]

I can't even begin to imagine how horrible HTS would have looked with Superman plopped in it. So thankful that never happened.

They should be for parks that don't have an observation tower or swings. Though, I think those red observation towers at Six Flags Over Texas & Magic Mountain are kind of dumb. Go up in an elevator, look around, go down. Those I wouldn't mind them replacing for a Sky Screamer as that would make more sense. Yet, SFOT is getting a Sky Screamer, and still having the Oil Derrick observation elevator thing. ????

Sky Screamers and Windseekers are nothing like observation towers. Observation towers are for going up high slowly so you can take everything in and take pictures. Sky Screamers are about going high fast and the thrill of swinging in the open air hundreds of feet above the ground. The only ride you listed that is remotely like a Sky Screamer is Condor, but even that is more of an elevated scrambler. Also, Condor, STT, BEB, Whirligig and Ricochet are all family rides, Sky Screamers are thrill rides. Do you really think the same people that ride Big Easy Balloons or STT will all want to hop on a Sky Screamer?! A Sky Screamer would be a great addition to the park, even with these rides currently within in.

[PfightingPolish]

I think the park would have been in real trouble if it had held onto Shockwave. You would have had Shockwave falling apart, Deja Vu being temperamental, Iron Wolf and Demon turning people off, no Whizzer and you would have been in a spot where you would have been trying to keep all afloat because you just put Superman, V2 and Vu in. Ugh.

In one of the many "butterfly flaps its wings" scenarios, let's say they try it, though. Mardi Gras goes in as it is currently, then the first big coaster they give up the goat on is Shockwave, probably after 2005. (In a more-nightmarish scenario, they do away with Demon in an effort to salvage parts to save Shockwave, but it's ineffective and you're maybe forcing GASM to close sooner to further reconstruct a coaster that becomes comparable to Son of Beast, but we'll be kind and say that didn't happen.)

Still reeling from the two-coaster experiment and the PR hit from taking out Whizzer, Six Flags doesn't feel financially ready for another coaster and largely converts that land back to parking lot, putting Wiggles World there instead as a "nod" to families and simply to maintain continuity.

Not wanting to seem to be taking out coaster after coaster, they hold onto Vu and continue to pour money into maintenance. It gets better, but it stalls the park's ability to do anything new. With no Buccaneer Battle, Splash Water Falls stays, but the antique cars go (too expensive to maintain) and that side of the park just has a kind of dead feel, particularly when Vu is down.

Sensing a need to do something, Six Flags decides to tear down the Theatre Royale and put in a Dark Knight-themed GCI that borrows a lot of ideas from what is now Apocalypse. The plan is OK, but fans are disappointed when track from a certain coaster from Kentucky only "visits" Great America en route to becoming Green Lantern somewhere else the next year.

As a result, we do have a GCI and a somewhat more functional Vu, but we still have Wolf, we have no Whizzer or X-Flight and a park with a lot less of the original character we feel it had.

I feel like this idea has some holes in it, but I was at the park all day and am tired; it was the best I could do under the circumstances.

[x-flight]

I would have loved to see them get rid of whizzer.. Skyscreamers are blah just a high swing they are not that thrilling maybe for kids but a waste.. I agree this park is cheap and it shows throughout

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[DeathbyDinn]

^^ I'm sure they must have some concept art or blueprints of that plan. I'd love to see them, would have been a great addition to S&D 3 when they addressed this decision.

^ Umm??

[JimPanky]

I would have loved to see them get rid of whizzer.. Skyscreamers are blah just a high swing they are not that thrilling maybe for kids but a waste.. I agree this park is cheap and it shows throughout

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I do not believe sfga is cheap. They are constantly putting in new coasters which cost a ton. Anyone know the price tag on X-Flight? I doubt it was "cheap". Big pyro shows like igNIGHT cost a ton each night they go on.

[JimPanky]

I found the estimate to build X-Flight was 12-15 million dollars. Don't know what the actual price tag was, but I wouldn't call spending over $10,000,000 on a new coaster cheap. And that doesn't include operating and maintenance costs.

[Goku1910]

I found the estimate to build X-Flight was 12-15 million dollars. Don't know what the actual price tag was, but I wouldn't call spending over $10,000,000 on a new coaster cheap. And that doesn't include operating and maintenance costs.

^That is cheap. Six Flags has a good relationship with B&M and Great America can be considered a "B&M Playground"

GateKeeper at CP cost somewhere between 25,000,000 and 30,000,000. Gotta take into account that ride is a tad longer and has 1 extra train. But that's still a huge difference.

[Ilovthevu']

X-Flight had to be at LEAST $15 million - not $10. Plus in that cost, that doesn't include putting the actual ride up - with the construction crew. They had to do a bunch of work to just clear out the area for X-Flight - especially Splash Water Falls. That's just the price for B&M to build the ride. Superman cost $15 million. Do you think a longer ride than Superman would be less money? For $10 million, you are talking about all the way back in 1992 with Batman the Ride in which I still don't really know the price of that. B&Ms are NOT cheap! Dollywood's coaster was $20 million, and is only 127 feet longer! Someone was looking at the wikipedia price of $12-$15 million, and that was quoted by not even Six Flags at all - some guy that helps / protects investors. Just based on Dollywood's $20 million, how much is a 127 feet of more track. I would say $17 million plus construction prices instead of $15 million.

Back to the Skyscreamer thing, I disagree with you. All the Skyscreamer / Wing Seekers are, are just swings that go up high in the air, and are for scenic views. The park can market it as a tall exciting fearful ride when all it is, is playing on people's fears of height. I have been on a Skyscreamer at St Louis & Cedar Point's Windseeker, and that's really what it is. Those are not thrill rides in my opinion! If they are thrill rides, than Whirligig is a "thrill" ride. Even if a Skyscreamer / Windseeker went up to the top and did nothing at all, people would still be in fear because they are really tall rides, and you are out in the open. People aren't as scared on cabin rides like Sky Trek Tower because you are enclosed completely. Put people on outside seats of the cabin on Sky Trek Tower, and they pee in their pants.

[JimPanky]

So you would agree with me then that sfga is not cheap right?

[Dmrbug]

^My whole beef with Wiggle's World was that they just bought such similar rides as the rides the park already had in which they didn't need Wiggle's World. The park has tea cups, the park has Sky Trek Tower (comparable to the Apple things), and the park had helicopters (in Looney Tunes). To me, that was just the dumbest addition. Add the little drop tower, but add it to Looney Tunes, or Cartoon Network. They didn't need the net area in Looney Tunes area. And than new ownership came, and they took the Wiggle's out of theming? I don't get it.

If you have a toddler you would get it. The Wiggle section is my 2 and a half year olds favorite part of the park. Its great for him and me that all the rides are together and he can get some quick ride fixes in a row. All the rides have short lines. Last year freaked out on the Sky Trek Tower, but loved the Apple things, so you can not compare them. And the best part is that there is tons of shade and water for the little guy to cool down on hot days.

As for If superman would have been in Whizzer spot they would have cut down all the great trees in the spot. That would have sucked.

[Galvan]

I seriously doubt that Splash and Antique Cars would have lasted longer than they did. Especially Splashwater falls, if you notice, most parks in the SF chain are removing these type of rides in a very quick order.

I also doubt that Deja Vu would have stayed as well as Iron Wolf.

SUF Being in Whizzer's spot guaranteed that IGnite would not be in Hometown Square though.

[Coaster Justin]

I wonder if they could've built Superman around Shockwave?

The station right behind Rue Le Dodge
The lift going over Shockwave's lift
The drop more angled to go through Shockwave's lift

Killed 3 Birds with 1 Stone:
1- Whizzer would've stayed
2- Shockwave would've stayed (I didn't like it personally, But I'm in the Minority)
3- A More Unique Superman

[PfightingPolish]

I wonder if they could've built Superman around Shockwave?

Possible? Probably. Likely? I think that's a lot of coaster to have in a small space, particularly at the front of the park where aesthetics also come into play moreso than at the back. It might have worked, but I think it would have been ugly at best. Plus, it would have presented some construction and engineering challenges. It may have brought more riders to Shockwave, but also might have looked bad, too — "Hey, look at these two coasters and notice that one is always working (but has a ridiculous line), but that's a heck of a lot better than this one, which consistently breaks." Don't think so.

I seriously doubt that Splash and Antique Cars would have lasted longer than they did. Especially Splashwater falls, if you notice, most parks in the SF chain are removing these type of rides in a very quick order. I also doubt that Deja Vu would have stayed as well as Iron Wolf.

The cars pretty much had to go. Not sure about Splash Water Falls, though. They still have Tidal Wave in St. Louis, after all.

It's hard for me to speak to the nature of Vu since it was gone before my girlfriend shook my Mom's OCD off me and got me both back into the park and very into coasters. But, when it was working, it seemed popular, and in a different scenario, I could see them trying harder to salvage it ... particularly one where you were holding onto two very rider-unfriendly coasters in Shockwave and Wolf.

[Paradise]

Just to add some more to this topic, I know a lot of people think that the park never really was going to take out Whizzer and that the whole thing was an elaborate PR scheme. That is not true, the park was absolutely planning to put Superman in Whizzer's spot. If they had, it would have been positioned the same way it was in ShockWave's spot, with the station in the back corner by the train tracks, and the drop and pretzel in front right behind the Hometown Square buildings. The lift hill would be right next to Hometown Fun Machine. The entrance and exit would have been in Southwest Territory near Orbit, where the games are now right before the railroad bridge.

I may be in the minority here, but I think this would've looked awesome. Happy with what the park is now though. But it's fun to think about what might've been.

[BLADE]

I would have loved to see them get rid of whizzer.. Skyscreamers are blah just a high swing they are not that thrilling maybe for kids but a waste.. I agree this park is cheap and it shows throughout

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Six Flags got it right by getting rid of Shockwave. Even on weekends, by 2000 that POS only had about a 20 minute line. It was pulling over 6g's. I got to ride this coaster in the prime of my life, from 14 to 28. I felt how it degenerated over the years. I don't black out on many rides, but I did from 2000 on when I rode Shockwave.

Park manager Jim Wintrode reportedly hated Shockwave. It would chew up wheels at an astronomical rate, which made it expensive to operate and maintain. It had significant periods of downtime. The final nail in the coffin for it, was during morning testing in August of 2002, it broke an axle and smashed through the passenger compartment. If riders had been present, they likely would have been killed in those seats. How do you reopen a ride when something like this happens?

So if they had removed Whizzer, it's still possible Shockwave never operates again. It could be SBNO for a couple of years, hoping a solution is found, then the empty space vacant a couple more. So after the Mardi Gras and Hurricane Harbor additions, I think it would be more in the 2007-2008 range before Shockwave is replaced, if at all. Perhaps the Dark Knight is a much bigger addition or something different all together, or it still may have been built as is for Whizzers replacement.

Splashwater Falls would still die at the same time. That ride was pretty much duct taped together for it's last season.

It was better to have had Whizzer and Superman from 2003 onwards, then to just have Superman.

I think the most shortsighted thing Great America did, was not using Superman as a replacement for Shockwave right off the bat. With all the extra space available, Superman could have become more of a Tatsu ride. Perhaps not in 03', but certainly by 04'.

I hope Great America never gets a skyscreamer. So many parks have them already. I'd rather ride one on the road, where it's more of new experience, than skip it because we have one here.

Here is an article from a former ride operator.
http://www.greatamericaparks.com/forums ... .php?t=341

[Sporlo]

Having never gotten to ride Shockwave because I was always too young (I certainly marveled at it though. Seeing all those loops, I was struck with awe every time I looked up at it from the parking lot), how did/does it compare to any of its sisters? Did it age worse, or are all of them just as bad?