Poll Question: Is Goliath a Steel? Wood? or Hybrid Coaster?

[Galvan]

There is a debate that has been started about whether or not Goliath will be a Wooden, Steel or Hybrid coaster.

What do you think?

Vote and Leave a comment below!

[SFGAMNUT9302]

I voted wood because RCDB.com labels it as well as Outlaw Run Wood

[Galvan]

What do you think it is though? I mean RCDB could have said it was a steel.

Personally, I feel as though it will be a wooden coaster since all coasters wood or steel use steel for some portions of track.

I know there are some that don't but for the most part that is the case.

[SFGAMNUT9302]

I'd personally consider it wood because of the structure and the underlying track being made of wood. I don't really know too much about these Hybrids or what classifies one as a hybrid or a wooden coaster, but in this picture of Outlaw Run, you can see the Track is made of wood, with some steel on top, where as with Texas Giant and iron Rattler, from the pictures I've seen, the track is pure steel just laid on top of the wooden structure.

[JimPanky]

Wood. Topper track=wood. Iron Horse=steel.
A coaster doesn't have to be 100% wood to be considered a woodie. If it did we wouldnt have many coasters in the wooden category. Typical wooden coasters have steel strips on the track.

[aesthyrian]

It's a wood coaster. An example of a hybrid is something like Iron Rattler, like others have said. A steel would be a coaster like Gemini.

[Sharon29060]

I consider it being a wooden coaster.

Wood. Topper track=wood. Iron Horse=steel.

Agree.

Wooden Coaster:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... iHT8Fneaog

Hybrid Wooden Coaster:
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... I7e0iZ3Atw

[Johnny.Ink]

I've also heard arguments about the wheel being the deciding factor.

The Voyage uses steel wheels, and as such rides differently then Outlaw Run which uses polyurethane wheels (which by the way, are my 1 and 2 wooden rollercoasters).

I think this is an easier way as the wheels have a very decided outcome on the type of ride offered.

[JimPanky]

I dont feel the wheels should be a big factor in whether a coaster should be considered wood, steel, or hybrid.

[scottydoesknow]

I've also heard arguments about the wheel being the deciding factor.

The Voyage uses steel wheels, and as such rides differently then Outlaw Run which uses polyurethane wheels (which by the way, are my 1 and 2 wooden rollercoasters).

I think this is an easier way as the wheels have a very decided outcome on the type of ride offered.

Outlaw Run has run with both steel and polyurethane wheels. The majority of the season it ran with steel wheels. El Toro and Wodan both run polyurethane wheels.

[scottydoesknow]

Anyone who thinks it's a steel coaster (I saw votes) or a hybrid coaster (I saw votes) please comment on why you feel this way to I can humiliate and belittle you.

[DejaVu2001]

I intended to vote for wood, somehow my mouse ended up on steel, and I didn't catch it Humiliate away

[BBH]

I've also heard arguments about the wheel being the deciding factor.

The Voyage uses steel wheels, and as such rides differently then Outlaw Run which uses polyurethane wheels (which by the way, are my 1 and 2 wooden rollercoasters).

I think this is an easier way as the wheels have a very decided outcome on the type of ride offered.

Outlaw Run uses steel wheels, you can look at TPR's IAAPA videos for proof of that. But besides, polyurethane wheels vs. steel wheels makes no difference. Wodan at Europa Park uses polyurethane wheels and from testimonials rides no different than any other wood coaster, it just eats up its energy fairly quickly.

The track itself is made of wood, it's just the top two layers are replaced with steel to allow for more flexibility. This is really no different from a standard wooden coaster, as all woodies run on a steel strip to avoid sharp steel blades tearing up the wood layers.

[KevinM]

I have been waiting for a poll like this. In my mind, pure Topper Track coasters absolutely fall into the "steel" category. Now, it definitely is different than anything else out there, but "hybrid" is already taken and really isn't used that much. Ideally I would separate it out into a new category that I call "steel-wood-steel". But we risk dividing coasters into too many categories. I wonder if the distinction between wood and steel even matters anymore. But as long as we are dividing coasters between wood and steel, I'm going to argue that Outlaw Run and Goliath are STEEL.

Let me start off by repeating the common opinion that the material of the supports does not affect the designation. Some refer to these as "hybrids" but few people maintain a separate list of hybrids. Ultimately, the material of the track determines the designation. I-Box track coasters, such as New Texas Giant are considered steel. Therefore, the wooden supports of Goliath bears no weight in this debate.

Here is a diagram of Topper Track that I drew up.


Topper Track is a steel sandwich. Almost all of it is steel: the rails, the rail ties, the brackets connecting the two, and the ledgers that hold the track up on the supports. In fact, if we were to remove the wood stack, we would end up with a track quite similar to Arrow/Vekoma track, which I have also drawn below.



Same basic structure, but the brackets are substantial enough to hold the weight of the rails and the train. The brackets on Topper Track are pretty substantial, although the bond between them and the rails doesn't seem like quite enough to hold up over time. This is where the wood stack comes into play. The wood stack provides support in between the rail and the rail tie to prevent the rail from bending inward. But does this fact make this a wood coaster? I don't think this wood stack really imparts much wood coaster character. The fact remains that there is no wood between the road wheels and upstops.

In my opinion, the tell-tale sign that we should consider Outlaw Run (and Goliath) steel coasters is that they do not feature a walkway around the whole course. This is because Topper Track naturally maintains its shape like a steel coaster and does not require daily maintenance to bend the track into shape. This is the reason that Topper Track was created: it can be seamlessly installed into existing wooden coasters to make them smoother and lower maintenance. We get into a real grey area here, I'm not sure how to classify a coaster with some wood sections and some steel sections. In my opinion, we should consider these partially steel and partially wood.

When SDC announced that Outlaw Run was going to be all Topper Track, I questioned their intent. I think Outlaw Run would be the same great coaster if it was made of I-Box. The "world's most daring wood coaster" has been the hallmark of SDC's advertising. We now see Great America advertising Goliath as the "tallest and fastest" wood coaster. It really makes me wonder if they are using Topper Track simply to make these claims. If Goliath were built of steel, it would still be a fantastic coaster, but the marketing team would not have any world records to talk about.

Does any of this matter? Not really. I love Outlaw Run to death. I was just at SDC on Saturday and got 9 laps on it. But in my opinion, Topper Track absolutely falls under the STEEL coaster umbrella. This post got kinda long, but I've been wanting to say this for a while. I can't wait for Goliath next year, it has a great shot at being my number one steel coaster.

[Sporlo]

Thanks for that KevinM. I brought up some of the same points that you did a while ago in a different thread and I was mostly ignored. (also thank you for using "I-Box" and not "Iron Horse")

In any case, I really couldn't care less what a ride is CALLED other than from the marketing ethics standpoint.

[Galvan]

KevinM,

That was an awesome job! Thank you for posting that.

I have also linked that post on the FB page!

Great Work!

[JimPanky]

interesting

[FParker185]

on the track ties though they are attached with a hinge to the topper track, so 100% of the support comes from the wood laminates. The track ties are only there to keep the gauge and are totally incapable of supporting the rails on their own. It's shown rather well in this pic, also I notice it's running all poly wheels.



Edit: pic above shows it just as well.

[Sporlo]

on the track ties though they are attached with a hinge to the topper track, so 100% of the support comes from the wood laminates. The track ties are only there to keep the gauge and are totally incapable of supporting the rails on their own.

I agree that this is a very important point too. If the definition comes from what supports the weight of the train, then cool, it's wood, but I think it's nice to point out the fact there is no wood between the road wheels and upstop wheels just as KevinM said.

Again, I'm cool classifying the Topper Track system as wood. I just want to make sure we all know the caveats.

[JimPanky]

I was thinking wood before but Im leaning towards the Hybrid title at this point.

[scottydoesknow]

I intended to vote for wood, somehow my mouse ended up on steel, and I didn't catch it Humiliate away

For a completely unnecessary topic like this, I'm surprised you weren't more careful as to choosing the correct answer to save the entire forum's integrity. Be more careful next time.

KevinM,

That was an awesome job! Thank you for posting that.

I have also linked that post on the FB page!

Great Work!

Galvan,

Why would you link this completely irrelevant, ill thought out disgrace of a reasonable explanation anywhere in relation to SFGAMWorld? How does that make the board look? I, personally, wouldn't want to be associated with anyone who considers Goliath ANYTHING but a wooden coaster. Same goes with anyone who thinks the Newtown shooting was a hoax.

And for anyone who thinks this is anything but a wooden roller coaster:

Besides Mike Parker's spot-on explanation (Which is the post that SHOULD be shared amongst the roller coaster community) I tend to look at it this way. If you're telling me that the Guinness Book of World Records, RCDB, Wikipedia, every media source that reported on Goliath, every amusement industry publication, the designer of the ride, AND the park itself ARE LYING TO US? THIS IS A BIGGER COVERUP THAN THE MOON LANDING, PEOPLE!

Please, take off your foil hats and admit that it's a wooden roller coaster before we have to provide every one of you with a frontal lobotomy. This just happens to be the next evolutionary step in wooden roller coaster design. Times have changed.

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[aesthyrian]

^ game over, 'nuff said.

[JimPanky]

The fact that we are having this discussion is good for coaster history.

What has happened is they keep coming up with new coaster elements and new ways to do things. You can't simply categorize a coaster based on design methods because classic wooden and classic steel coasters have not been designed this way. New methods new elements it is a good time to be a coaster enthusiasts and watch the future happen!

[Sporlo]

I intended to vote for wood, somehow my mouse ended up on steel, and I didn't catch it Humiliate away

For a completely unnecessary topic like this, I'm surprised you weren't more careful as to choosing the correct answer to save the entire forum's integrity. Be more careful next time.

KevinM,

That was an awesome job! Thank you for posting that.

I have also linked that post on the FB page!

Great Work!

Galvan,

Why would you link this completely irrelevant, ill thought out disgrace of a reasonable explanation anywhere in relation to SFGAMWorld? How does that make the board look? I, personally, wouldn't want to be associated with anyone who considers Goliath ANYTHING but a wooden coaster. Same goes with anyone who thinks the Newtown shooting was a hoax.

And for anyone who thinks this is anything but a wooden roller coaster:

Besides Mike Parker's spot-on explanation (Which is the post that SHOULD be shared amongst the roller coaster community) I tend to look at it this way. If you're telling me that the Guinness Book of World Records, RCDB, Wikipedia, every media source that reported on Goliath, every amusement industry publication, the designer of the ride, AND the park itself ARE LYING TO US? THIS IS A BIGGER COVERUP THAN THE MOON LANDING, PEOPLE!

Please, take off your foil hats and admit that it's a wooden roller coaster before we have to provide every one of you with a frontal lobotomy. This just happens to be the next evolutionary step in wooden roller coaster design. Times have changed.

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Who said anyone was lying? Quite a lot of classifications of things are arbitrary to begin with. But they are bound by preset definitions. When a new product is introduced that does not conform cleanly to a preset definition that was defined in the past, you have to either modify the definitions, or fit the new product into a less-than-perfect classification.

For the record I still call Topper Track rides wooden. It's a new product though. I don't even know what the official definition of "wood coaster" is though, or if it even exists.

[Viper 88]

I went with hybrid for the mere fact that it has a wooden structure but will most likely feature steel track. And speaking honestly wouldnt tubular steel roller coasters have been the next step in wooden coaster evolution? Just consider up until Disney, before them all coasters were wooden. Then steel came onto the scene and almost every coaster has been made out of it since.