Six Flags: A Second Chance (7/12)

by **RemoveShapiro,NotVu** on June 21st, 2009, 5:46 pm

DIe-hards of this board might be aware that my contributions mostly consist of bitter vitriol aimed at Shapiro for removing Deja Vu. The last time I visited the park was September 2007 on an Accenture buyout day. I was an annual season passholder from 1999-2006. (The only reason I didn't get a pass in '07 was because I was out of town all summer). Anyway, two weeks ago an old buddy was in town and was itching to go to a waterpark. I figured that Hurricane Harbor was a good solution, and I could revisit my old stomping grounds to check on the status of the park. As Deja Vu had been the only real ride that got my adrenaline pumping at the park, I hadn't seen any reason to visit last year, nor this year until this social opportunity presented itself.

We arrived at the parking gates, and I was really disappointed that, for $15, you are treated like a second-class citizen and have to walk 10 miles just to get to the park. No way I was going to pay $25 for the privilege of being a bit closer in the North Shore parking lot. One strike against six flags.

We walked to the gate at about 12:30 PM with our Comcast Customer Apprecation tickets. The guy at the turnstile actually used our names when he wished us a good day, and there was a lady waiting for us inside the gates saying "Welcome to Six Flags!" Almost a little over the top, but I gotta say, they were both nice touches. One gold star for six flags.

The first thing I noticed was that there seemed to be garbage cans everywhere, with signs on them that said that said to have a heart and keep the park clean, or something to that effect. I have to say, I'm not sure if the park was cleaner (this park always seemed clean to me), but the fact that they are making a big deal out cleanliness made it seem cleaner. Plus, I went to the bathroom four or five times, and there was always a janitor in there. Two gold stars for six flags.

It was a perfect day, 75 degrees and sunny. I noticed lines to the Midway for Bull and Viper. Not good. Anyway, we went into Hurricane Harbor, and realized it would be $14 for a "large" locker which was actually very small. Major ripoff. Two strikes against Six Flags.

We hit the tornado ride, the hubba bubba (or something like that), and the lazy river. The lines were very short. I will comment that the ride attendants at the top of the pool and the bottom were very engaged in their jobs and doing them enthusiastically. It really was a nice touch. Three gold stars for six flags.

We went into the regular park and hit Buccaneer Battle. It was about 3:00, and there was absolutely no line. I mean nobody in the station in front of us. This may be the least ridden brand new attraction in the history of the park. (The funny thing is that our tickets allowed us "exclusive ride time" from 10 to 11, but there was absolutely no line in the middle of the day.) Anyway, we really enjoyed the ride. It is a unique and neat attraction. I wish there were a few more elements during the ride that doused you with water...that is my only complaint. This would make the ride really cool. But we actually did the ride twice in a row. I think this is the definition of a good "family ride". Four gold stars for six flags.

My buddy is afraid of roller coasters, but I convinced him he could ride Dark Knight. The line was 20 minutes. The preshow is the best in the history of the park. As for the ride, it was the highlight of the day. I had a blast...laughing the whole way. Maybe it was just my low expectations, or the fact that I hadn't been on a coaster in 2 years. I wouldn't wait more than 20 minutes for it, but if the line is short...I think it's worth a ride. Great for families. Five gold stars for six flags.

Our ticket allowed us a free meal (which doesn't allow for a drink) but we went to Angelo's and got a HUGE plate of mostaccioli, and it was actually pretty good. Friendly service as well. One gold star for the food, portions, and service, negative one half star for lack of drink with meal. Net positive one half star.

I went to ride Raging Bull, the new best coaster in the park by default, while my buddy chilled out in Hurricane Harbor. Wait was about 45 minutes. The ride seemed a little faster than I remembered it. Good times.

We hit the sky tower and left.

It was sort of nice to spend a day at the park without the thrills and not stand in line all day. Obviously, my impression of the park was very good. Would I trade it all to have Vu back? Absolutely. But I will say that the park seems to be doing great and Shapiro is succeeding at making the park a better place for families. If we had these new attractions/improvements and Vu, the park would be really impressive, and I'd probably be a passholder once again.

Thanks for reading.

by **Galvan** on June 21st, 2009, 10:42 pm

Rambling on and on about Six Flags removing a rollercoaster that while it was a kick-ass ride was always broken down:

Three Strikes

by **Coaster Justin** on June 21st, 2009, 11:47 pm

My only Major Complaints with Shapiro is that: He Seems Out of Touch To Me with Parks. I know he came from ESPN, but seriously, he's never heard or rcdb.com before? In 2008 he added An Indoor Coaster about 500 Or so Yards from another Indoor Coaster (SFGAdv's Dark Knight + Skull Mountain), He Added a Batman- the Ride Clone about 25 Miles from a Batman- the Ride Clone (SFFT's Goliath + SWSAnt Great White), He added an Indoor Wild Mouse Maybe 200yrds from an Outdoor Spinning Wild Mouse.

I was pretty ticked at him UNTIL 2009 when he Added BUCCANEER BATTLE!!!! For the First Time in awhile, I was amazed at What Shapiro could do that Burke didn't think of. in my opinion, for the last few years, our projects have felt rushed (Wiggle's World, Dark Knight) but BB was actually GREAT.

I Don't care that they removed Deja Vu, If they Kept it, It would still break down over and over and over and over and over again. I Liked it, but it's not worth Protesting against the park because they removed it. (Raging Bull, Viper, Whizzer would all have to get removed in 1 Year for Me to do that.)

I just wish we could get some Insane Thrill Coaster. Our last one was in 03 and Pretty much every major SF park has gotten a Major Coaster; SFOG, SFStL, SFGAdv, SFMM, LR, SFMex.

Just not a Dive Machine, I want Quality. NO MORE 1 TRICK PONY'S
I want a Blue Fire Like Ride but you probably knew that already.

by **BP317** on June 21st, 2009, 11:54 pm

For the First Time in awhile, I was amazed at What Shapiro could do that Burke didnt think of

in my opinion Hurricane Harbor and the Golden Kingdom are really well themed, though I get where your coming from.

by **FParker185** on June 22nd, 2009, 12:22 am

Golden Kingdom is really nice, however it was to little to late for Burke and company. Not to mention it is anchored by a ride that cost more than SFGAm's last 4-5 cap ex projects combined($50 mil is the figure I hear) for a ride that has even worse reliability than the Deja Vu's.

by **Coaster Justin** on June 22nd, 2009, 1:03 am

Couldn't they have gone the Xcellerator Style with a Few More Camelbacks and a Track Layout? They could have only gone like 200ft and have a Very Good Layout with Tunnels, Camelbacks, A Helix, A Splashdown, Inversions? Kinda like a BIG Italian Job/ Blue Fire is what I'm talking about.

by **onyxhotel08** on June 22nd, 2009, 12:57 pm

Hello Six Flags Mexico got Dark Knight too! And St. Louis got a wooden ride that I honestly don't see coming here for a while...we already have two classics in Eagle and Viper. People on here seem to find Buccaneer Battle worthwhile but the short lines on a NEW RIDE are never a good sign. The temps have gone up lately, so should have the wait times.

by **coasterkid94** on June 22nd, 2009, 5:13 pm

I know that the "Shapiro era" has brought many good and bad changes to the parks, but I think we should stop solely blaming Shapiro. I know he is the CEO, but just like any corporation, there are many people that work together to make decisions. Mark Shapiro may have had a different vision for Six Flags than some of the other executives, but he must have gotten some support for his ideas.

by **Demon_07** on June 22nd, 2009, 5:56 pm

onyxhotel08 wrote:Hello Six Flags Mexico got Dark Knight too! And St. Louis got a wooden ride that I honestly don't see coming here for a while...we already have two classics in Eagle and Viper. People on here seem to find Buccaneer Battle worthwhile but the short lines on a NEW RIDE are never a good sign. The temps have gone up lately, so should have the wait times.

There was a line about 10 feet outside the station today. You also have to keep in mind the ride's capacity.

by **w00dland** on June 24th, 2009, 12:36 pm

The line was 20 minutes. The preshow is the best in the history of the park. As for the ride, it was the highlight of the day. I had a blast...laughing the whole way. Maybe it was just my low expectations, or the fact that I hadn't been on a coaster in 2 years. I wouldn't wait more than 20 minutes for it, but if the line is short...I think it's worth a ride. Great for families. Five gold stars for six flags.

I agree with every word in this statement. I rode it for the first time about a month ago and the pre-show blew me away. It was almost , and I stress almost, like I wasn't at a Six Flags or Cedar Fair park for a moment. The ride wasn't incredbily themed itself, but I still thought it kicked some serious butt for families. Good times.

As for your assessment of the park: It really is in better shape than it was 3 years ago, but it really isn't fair to judge a CEO of a national company by his decision to remove one coaster that cost the park more than it delivered. If you think Deja Vu is the end all be all of coasters, move to Idaho. I personally still think BTR is the best ride in the park, just like I did in 2005. Shapiro has done far more things RIGHT for the park than wrong. I like him.

by **onyxhotel08** on June 25th, 2009, 1:30 am

If it really had issues till the last day I would not be mad but Vu ran fine in 07

by **RemoveShapiro,NotVu** on June 25th, 2009, 9:50 pm

I agree with the above comments that Shapiro has done much more right than wrong. And even though I am an adrenaline junkie, I really enjoyed the new attractions. And the Dark Knight Preshow made me feel like I was at Universal.

Re the Deja Vu complaining: I just wish we could have someone who weighed in on the process give us an exact accounting of the decision-making rationale. I can almost guarantee that they weren't aware that the ride's issues had basically been fixed and the ride was reliable in 2007. In that case, it was a mistake. You don't tear down what was indisputably one of the top attractions because of "low capacity" only. In that case, GAdv should tear down Kingda Ka and we should also remove Vertical Velocity, not to mention that they shouldn't have built Dark Knight in the first place.

by **Coaster Justin** on June 25th, 2009, 11:14 pm

According to Shapiro, "Any Expensive Attraction has to Justify itself through Guest Popularity (Kingda Ka) or face Extinction (Chiller)."

by **rct2wizard360** on June 26th, 2009, 1:56 pm

RemoveShapiro,NotVu wrote:Re the Deja Vu complaining: I just wish we could have someone who weighed in on the process give us an exact accounting of the decision-making rationale. I can almost guarantee that they weren't aware that the ride's issues had basically been fixed and the ride was reliable in 2007. In that case, it was a mistake. You don't tear down what was indisputably one of the top attractions because of "low capacity" only. In that case, GAdv should tear down Kingda Ka and we should also remove Vertical Velocity, not to mention that they shouldn't have built Dark Knight in the first place.

Coaster Justin wrote:My only Major Complaints with Shapiro is that: He Seems Out of Touch To Me with Parks. I know he came from ESPN, but seriously, he's never heard or rcdb.com before? In 2008 he added An Indoor Coaster about 500 Or so Yards from another Indoor Coaster (SFGAdv's Dark Knight + Skull Mountain), He Added a Batman- the Ride Clone about 25 Miles from a Batman- the Ride Clone (SFFT's Goliath + SWSAnt Great White), He added an Indoor Wild Mouse Maybe 200yrds from an Outdoor Spinning Wild Mouse.

Why do you people think that the higher ups are some kind of bimbo's in suits that have no idea whats going?
You people BLOW my mind here.

Kingda Ka gets A LOT better capacity than Deja Vu did buddy boy. I mean with a 30-45 second ride cycle and a few trains, I don't see where you're coming from. Don't even give me that downtime b/s. That thing has ran A LOT more than Vu ever did it's "opening season." Also, Vertical Velocity is a lot more reliable ride compared to to Deja Vu. It's had two big downtimes I can remember, the beginning of this season, and one during Fright Fest, but I don't remember the year. Guess that shows how big those downtimes really were. Considering the only one I really remember was this year.

Justin, you are just plain ignorant when you talk about anything on here.
These are the same people that have companies come in to check the best distances to place between garbage cans and really care about that sort of stuff, and you SERIOUSLY think that they don't know whats right down the road? You have GOT to be kidding me.

People on these boards need to stop acting like they have some supreme knowledge of what's right for the park, and thinking that Shaprio or any other big shots in the company have NO clue what they are doing.

Go play more rct if you're gonna act like that. Fulfill your deepest darkest desires elsewhere.

by **w00dland** on June 26th, 2009, 6:14 pm

RemoveShapiro,NotVu wrote:I agree with the above comments that Shapiro has done much more right than wrong. And even though I am an adrenaline junkie, I really enjoyed the new attractions. And the Dark Knight Preshow made me feel like I was at Universal.

Re the Deja Vu complaining: I just wish we could have someone who weighed in on the process give us an exact accounting of the decision-making rationale. I can almost guarantee that they weren't aware that the ride's issues had basically been fixed and the ride was reliable in 2007.

Sorry dude, but the reason that Vu was "more" reliable (I'm not gonna say that all the ride's issue's were fixed, because that's probably not true) was because the park was putting loads of cash into its maintinance. Vu had small breakdowns constantly, and while mechanics could get there and fix it fairly fast you are still taking a mechanics time every two hours to go fix DV.

The big boys at the corporate offices look at the bottom line. Rides are supposted to be large investments that pay off over time, but Deja Vu kept costing more and more money to keep running efficiently. Add that in with a TERRIBLE PR record the ride had (almost all guests believed the ride never actually ran, and many of them are happy its gone because it served no purpose to them) and you've got a ride that shouldn't be in the park. You may have upset about .002% of the parks admissions (Us) for the year, but thats certainly a number the park can live with. Especially because most of us still buy season passes each year and probably end up costing the park a lot of money each year with our parking passes and the fact most of us don't spend much money in the park.

Look, I don't know exact facts because I didn't work at the park, but I know a lot of people on this board did work while Vu was in the park, and on the ride itself. I'm sure they can shed light on the situation better than I can.

by **BP317** on June 26th, 2009, 9:24 pm

but I know a lot of people on this board did work while Vu was in the park, and on the ride itself. I'm sure they can shed light on the situation better than I can

It would take a book to describe the problems that ride had. The fact is it was down a LOT and when one of the most visible coasters in the park is always down thats a lot of people venting to guest relations or calling the park complaining on a daily basis. There were some days where it would just break down over and over and over and over again it was just rediculous for the parks maintenence/operations team and ended with its demise. Yes it ran well in 2007 but who knows if it would have ran well in 2008. Its rediculous for a huge coaster that cost $10mil to build to get 400 riders per hour anyway.
Many of you guys think DejaVu 2006-2007 was how its reliability normally was which led to people complaining about its downtime. Thats absolutely not true, its down time from 2001-2003 was much MUCH MUCH worse than anything you can ever imagine and the downtime it had after that just added insult to injury. Those of us were around a lot then will never forget those days

.

That being said ive been to Magic Mountain 5x and never seen DejaVu break down once, that thing is a tank. Im sure it has a lot to do with the weather though.

by **tp41190** on June 27th, 2009, 1:22 am

rct2wizard360 wrote:Kingda Ka gets A LOT better capacity than Deja Vu did buddy boy. I mean with a 30-45 second ride cycle and a few trains, I don't see where you're coming from. Don't even give me that downtime b/s. That thing has ran A LOT more than Vu ever did it's "opening season." Also, Vertical Velocity is a lot more reliable ride compared to to Deja Vu. It's had two big downtimes I can remember, the beginning of this season, and one during Fright Fest, but I don't remember the year. Guess that shows how big those downtimes really were. Considering the only one I really remember was this year.

I agree with your post except for the Kinda Ka part. Kinda Ka does have a lot of down time, almost as bad as dejavu, but you are right that the overall capasity is better.

Heres a quote from an employee on another board.

Kingda Ka is now closed...for the THIRD time this year. The first time we were down for a month. Last week we were closed all week, then we were open for a day and a half, and now it's closed. We've been told three weeks, but I don't believe that.

The first time we went down was because the turbine the hydraulic house exploded destroying shiz! Now, during our Rolling Thunder track this morning, we saw that crane has now been placed at the hydraulic house...AGAIN! But...we noticed something strange. There was cable all over the ground... Supposadly a gear box broke...but I'm not too sure.

Either way, I say it's time to just sit back and laugh at Sux Flags' fail

by **Cryptkeeper** on June 27th, 2009, 6:11 pm

While Deja Vu always did have poor reliability, it was also often closed due to staffing. Many times people thought it was closed because it had maintenance issues, which it did often, but also it was often closed because the park didn't care or couldn't find the bodies to staff it.

If it was open to the public every time it was closed due to staffing, it would been open a LOT more.

So, in the end, both the reliability and Six Flags inability or not caring enough to staff the ride eventually did it in.

by **RemoveShapiro,NotVu** on June 28th, 2009, 2:29 pm

Please explain how in the world you can just opt not to staff the best (or one of the best) rides in the park and leave it closed. This was never done with Bull, Viper, etc. Did you need a PhD. to operate it? I just do not understand that.

by **onyxhotel08** on June 28th, 2009, 11:05 pm

Six Flags Great America has been run by a bunch of fat heads. Silverwood bought it for what 1 million (4 million installation), & not looking at capacity it was virtually up and running 100% last year. So, what did Silverwood do that SFGam could not do???????

by **rct2wizard360** on June 29th, 2009, 12:00 am

onyxhotel08 wrote:Six Flags Great America has been run by a bunch of fat heads. Silverwood bought it for what 1 million (4 million installation), & not looking at capacity it was virtually up and running 100% last year. So, what did Silverwood do that SFGam could not do???????

It's their headline attraction. They don't have 12 other roller coasters to worry about.

What the hell don't you get, it's a smaller park. They can put more attention towards one ride.

by **Coaster Justin** on June 29th, 2009, 12:50 am

^ First of all: Aftershock was purchased for 4 Million; It Probably Cost Six Flags 15 Million each (Just Guessing.)

Second Of All; WHY THE HECK ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT DEJAVU?????? You guys are still upset about a 90 Second Ride that was at the Park for 7 Years and Operating for 1.7 Years Continuously? The Ride Broke Down more than it was Opened, The Ride has Lousy Capacity, and it cost them too much to operate compared to what it offered. You Do the Math

UnReliability + Bad Capacity + High Operating Costs + Unknown Popularity= GET RID OF IT.

If you guys miss it, move to LA or Idaho, OK.

by **monsterfan99** on June 29th, 2009, 9:29 am

With Kingda Ka down town this year, almost all of that stems from the ride getting hit by lighting. Not much a park can do about that.

by **FParker185** on June 30th, 2009, 7:15 pm

What Silverwood did that SFGAm did not do is call in Vekoma to fix it. Vekoma fixed all of SFGAm's homemade in house "fixes" and next thing you know the ride is running like a champ.

At least that's the story I keep hearing. Of course taking the ride completely apart helped Vekoma with that process, which obviously SFGAm would/could never do, though I guess alot of the problems were in programming.

Six Flags: A Second Chance (7/12)

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