acm21 wrote:Does anyone else feel this way too? Because all of the coasters have gotten boring and when I go to the park and nothing new and EXCITING has been added it makes everything else seem unexciting.
They were banking on TDK being a coaster made for families with kids, that teens and adults would also really enjoy because of the theming and atmosphere of the ride. Obviousley they failed miserably, (not that its a bad ride, I really like it and it is by far my favorite mouse). But thats the problem, you cant hide the fact that its a mouse and nothing more. SFGAm is advertising it as a new coaster and not a new family coaster (hey the marketing people are doing their job, the whole reason they themed the ride to the new movie was for the attendance/hype), but people arent going expecting it to be for kids they are going expecting it to be a thrilling coaster and as a result just walk off dissapointed. Yes guests do go to GR and complain they spent a lot of money coming to the park to ride the new ride, waited x amount of time for it, and it turned out to be a family coaster with no prior warning. And if you inquire with SFGAm's management about it they will say "Its a family coaster, we dont care if teens like it because kids do," and thats really not the way it was supposed to turn out.
The biggest problem is the queue being WAY too long. Yes the entrance looks sweet with the themed building and L track latticework, but you wait in that gi-normous queue house. I think we all can agree the queue house is lame and all can come up with better solutions, but bottomline is SF shouldve realized its a mouse and not made the queue hold 1 hour and 30 minutes worth of line. Even though GAdv's queue is outdoors and is lame, it was still more tolerable of a wait because it wasnt nearly as long.
That being said lets not forget GAm needed an indoor ride as well as a family ride. They needed it, they got it, and now they can move on.
The thing that busts my balls is expanding HH into the Carousel Plaza area + adding another water ride in the dry park = more attractions that have shortened operating schedules. Expanding HH is needed obviosly due to crowds and waterparks are a huge draw during summer, but by adding another water ride in the middle of the dry park thats another ride that very well maybe sitting dormat during fall. And I wonder how long this conflict of interests will last between Mark Shapiro and SFGAm's GP: obviosley there has been negative response to Operation Spygirl and TDK because in the past SFGAm has gotten some of the biggest attractions in the world and Mark Shapiro seemingly likes to throw peanutes at people and expect them to flock to it like gold. Yeah he can talk up a used SLC going to Great Escape as "giving our guests an extremely thrilling and visually stunning experience" because the nature of their market, its just not going to work at SFGAm.
The reason TDK was built in Orleans Place instead of County Fair was to leave some space for future attractions, I just dont get the idea of taking out a coaster that had low capacity with a lot of downtime for a water ride that has fairly low capacity and a shortened operating schedule (also GAm will not hesitate to close Yankee Clipper or Loggers Run when they are short staffed if they have another water ride that is open, this year they figured since they have Wiggles they could SBNO the back half of Camp Cartoon without much of a backlash, they even cut the train from FF which used to be kind of a headliner during the event).
According to screamscape (Yeah I said screamscape), there will be only 1 major ride added from Six Flags in 2009 and that will be Magic Mountain's wooden coaster. I somehow doubt they can only afford to put in one ride even with all their debt. So, I was thinking if we can't get a dive machine an awesome water ride (not a Splash Battle), would be just fine and help with some of the lines at other rides.
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I completely agree with the post a few posts back. This was the first year I have not gotten a season pass since 1998. I have no motivation to visit.
Bottom line: The park is going down the tubes. There is nothing new to do and hasn't been for awhile. The best coaster is gone.
SfGam07-- you seem like a knowledgeable guy. Do you have a ballpark figure of how much the "extra cost" of keeping Vu up was on an annual basis? To rip out a fantastic relatively new coaster, you better have a pretty damn good reason. "Poor capacity" is not acceptable. Personally, I didn't think the line was that slow. I could usually get on Vu between an 30 and 45 minutes, maybe an hour at worst.
I think part of the problem here is that Shapiro doesn't like steel roller coasters. He said he wouldn't get within a mile of X2. This is like someone who has played two rounds of golf in his life being the manager at Augusta. This is in stark contrast to somehere like Holiday World.
You know what Six Flags could do right now that would get me to come back? Load the pieces of the Georgia Vu onto a truck, reassemble it exactly where it was in Great America, and open it. Either that, or put one incredibly mind-blowing coaster in its place, that can somehow, someway, top Vu.
I know you are new here, but do you think before you post? Based on your screen name, I don't think you would be satisfied with any explanation as to why Vu is gone.
Capacity issues not a good reason? Factor in that over the 7 seasons of operation, Vu has been a thorn in the parks side.
Sure , Shapiro not liking steel coasters is the real reason. Every steel coaster will be gone from SF parks by 2010. All SF parks will be wooden coasters , Wiggles World, and Thomas Town.
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Chitown wrote:I know you are new here, but do you think before you post? Based on your screen name, I don't think you would be satisfied with any explanation as to why Vu is gone.
Capacity issues not a good reason? Factor in that over the 7 seasons of operation, Vu has been a thorn in the parks side.
Sure , Shapiro not liking steel coasters is the real reason. Every steel coaster will be gone from SF parks by 2010. All SF parks will be wooden coasters , Wiggles World, and Thomas Town.
C'mon, don't give Shapiro ideas
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^Have you ever heard of Tony Hawk's Big Spin? And why does every ride put in have to be a "big thriller"? I enjoyed TDK, even though most people didn't. And I love rides like Tony Hawk's Big Spin. Bigger doesn't always mean better. Look at Evel Knievel. Even though it's wood, it still caters to the thrillseekers. I think you should also look at it this way. Would you rather have nothing at all over TDK? We easily could have not gotten it. I'm sure you'll mold to the way this forum works, but you have to realize, as many people here have, that we're not always going to get a 400 ft. tall coaster that goes 300 mph and has 20 loops.
Last edited by cycamps on Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Also a point to make is which SF park is in dire need of a major thrilling steel coaster?
Maybe I'd buy the argument that SFGAm is without a huge signature steel looper, but it's not exactly a desperate need as we have Bull which keeps the thrill seeking GP entertained, but outside of that most every park has one or more large steel coasters. It's the family rides that have been neglected for the past decade under former ownership. Technically Goliath was installed while Shapiro was in charge, though it was purchased by the former management. Also there is Goliath at LaRonde which I don't know much about except it's a near clone of SFOG's.
Favorite Wood Coasters: Raven, Thunderhead, El Toro Favorite Steel: Expedition GeForce, Olympia Looping Coasters Ridden:Steel: 439, Wood: 128, Total: 567
RBull4life wrote:^ Where the hell do you expect to company to get the money to build a massive steel coaster?
Probably the same places they have been getting it for the past 8 years while being 2 billion in debt.
IF they announce a positive cash flow (and its substantial) then SF itself might be able to pay for something. Maybe price gouging park goers will pay off.
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American Eagle and Viper are enough I think. A woodie, no matter how good, will never draw the corwds a steel coaster can. B&M Dive Machines can be customized and they have a good relationship with Six Flags with a few B&M rides already in the park. I think they knew they had to put something worthwhile in that space when they decided to dump Vu and SWF. Hmm, I think we will know something next month or October at latest. Construction needs to begin by the end of the year especially with the winters we've been having. Give us:
A) A new water ride B) Dive Machine C) Expanded HH
We don't have room for a woodie and the time and space to figue out a way to put one in is too much. What might hurt our chances is that we got DK last year and even though it is mediocre it still counts as a ride and set the park back $7,500,000. Steel costs are through the roof now. Gas is always a factor too. We might have to wait another year or two.
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^^ But, I do agree that Jay Thomas and Shapiro are being a little hypocritical. Jay Thomas has stated before that SFMM is all about quality, NOT quantity, yet they till gave X2 a TEN MILLION DOLLAR renovation and the rumored woodie that they might get.
I'm still not expecting much from Six Flags in the next couple years.
I am actually started to HOPE they go bankrupt and sell GAm to an owner that will give us something good!
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Jay Thomas has stated before that SFMM is all about quality, NOT quantity, yet they till gave X2 a TEN MILLION DOLLAR renovation and the rumored woodie that they might get.
X badly needed the renovation, it had constant downtime and was closed for weeks at a time doing repairs. Add the fact it had terrible capacity. It needed a huge renovation badly because of the capacity and trains tearing themselves apart, which it looks like they fixed both. Now the ride doesnt have nearly as many downtime problems and better capacity, so that was actually a very good move in terms of quality. That in my opinion was the best money Six Flags has spent in the "Shapiro era" I guess you could call it
I do agree that Jay Thomas and Shapiro are being a little hypocritical.
Thats another issue for another topic
Last edited by SFGAm07 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Out with the old...Whizzer/Iron Wolf...In with the new...B&M Machine/Water Ride...2009/2010
It's time for change. We need another "big name" to make the summer commercials more than just the Hurricane Harbor stuff. We need another Raging Bull. We need another Vertical Velocity. What we don't need is another kiddie area. What we don't need is a Splash Battle ride with low capacity.
I know this is scary to think about but we might not get anything for 2009. We might have the go karts moved there and a new ride added to HH. I need to go stop writing this is too painful to think about.
Off-Topic****
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^ I have thought about that too. Maybe we won't get anything added to Great America, we might get somthing added to HH instead. I don't go to HH so if this was true I will be mad, but it is still a possibilty.
^^ How do you love those commercials?! I also have never been to HH in the 50 times I've visited the park. We tried to go one time but they closed it due to rain.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
I'm not sure what forum this "idea" has been in before, but basically if you can't find anything "fun" to do in the park with the current attractions...then don't go! Honestly, the park won't be on their hands and knees begging for you to come back...
Since 2003, we've received some kind of addition to our park and regardless of coaster or not, it was still an addition nonetheless. I believe GAm has an excellent lineup of coasters, flat rides, and things for the entire family to enjoy together. After all, this isn't some RCT kind of thing where you just "plop" coaster after coaster to bring up your ratings, six flags already tried this and now faces the repercussions for doing so (once again...another idea from some other forum somewhere)
After all, we did get a coaster this year, but instead of spending 50 million dollars on 1 mega coaster a single park in the chain could enjoy, they (SF corp) decided to disperse an amount so that more parks in the chain could get something new. I'm almost positive the time will come when the company decides to build thrilling coasters, but without the money/positive cash flow (according to the current regime) it isn't happening.
In a way, it's basic business...if you can't afford it, you can't buy it; you spend what you don't have and then you have to pay the debt back. It begins to add up when you constantly spend more and more and more year after year after year when you know you don't have the money but don't really care. The current corporate officers are left to "pick up the pieces" of the job left behind. But it's still a business so you still have to spend money on upkeep yearly; you just can't spend crazy to add huge amounts to the debt that you already have.
I guess the people that automatically assume that it's okay to plop coaster after coaster just because a park has went X amount of years without a major addition makes me believe that they have no concept of business and money.
Sense of buisness? Probably at least half of the people that go to SF are high school or lower and you want them to have a sense of buisness? And besides most adults have no clue that six flags is in debt. These people have a sense of patience, and right now most peoples patience is running low on the park not adding coasters. I think the surveys that the park takes show it clear enough that people indeed want a rollercoaster/exciting flat.
onyxhotel08 wrote:Out with the old...Whizzer/Iron Wolf...In with the new...B&M Machine/Water Ride...2009/2010
It's time for change. We need another "big name" to make the summer commercials more than just the Hurricane Harbor stuff. We need another Raging Bull. We need another Vertical Velocity. What we don't need is another kiddie area. What we don't need is a Splash Battle ride with low capacity.
I know this is scary to think about but we might not get anything for 2009. We might have the go karts moved there and a new ride added to HH. I need to go stop writing this is too painful to think about.
Off-Topic****
Love, Love, Love the One Flag, Six Flags! Six Flags, More Flags, More Fun!
this is a great point, and its true...sorry to those of you faithful to the oldies but the ratio of you to the rest of the public that will bring in money to a struggling park will be people coming to ride a new big ride. I cant imagine removing Whizzer or Iron Wolf leaving much in the way of space but I am also no architect or land surveyor. I am sure it couldn't hurt. Especially Iron Wolf, unless they make some restraint changes, a paint change, or new cars then it may as well be shut down. The loading times are awful, and only a fool would wait in line for it on a busy summer day when the GP drags the line into the wrapping queue.
We do need another Raging Bull, but just reading here makes it apparent that its not going to happen. In my opinion that is the only way to attract a lot of people again. Any new big coaster would really be incredible.
I love my season pass this year, but if there is nothing new next year to enhance my experience even slightly with the amount of empty space where Vu and SWF stands i will have to think hard before dropping the cash.
acm21 wrote:Sense of buisness? Probably at least half of the people that go to SF are high school or lower and you want them to have a sense of buisness? And besides most adults have no clue that six flags is in debt. These people have a sense of patience, and right now most peoples patience is running low on the park not adding coasters. I think the surveys that the park takes show it clear enough that people indeed want a rollercoaster/exciting flat.
Well...it surely doesn't take a high school diploma to figure out that you can't spend what you don't have without owing someone back the money you borrowed. Most people have a pretty good idea that Six Flags is in financial trouble (and have been for some time) if you ask me.
Once again...the park just added a coaster and whether or not it's some 300 foot mega looper or not, it's still a coaster. The guest survey things may tell the park that the guests want some new 40 million dollar coaster, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.
Be happy that we get what we get....considering there were many parks in the chain in the past era that went without anything for a solid chunk of time.
Every steel coaster will be gone from SF parks by 2010. All SF parks will be wooden coasters , Wiggles World, and Thomas Town. 
