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Safety Mechanisms of Giant Drop

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Postby Ilovthevu' on August 1st, 2017, 2:55 am
Most of you probably won't know, but what I would like to know is what locks the seats for Giant Drop as compared to a ride like American Eagle / Viper. For American Eagle / Viper, everytime you push your harness down you hear click / click / click, and for Giant Drop I don't think you do. They have to be different systems.

I know for American Eagle / Viper, once the train leaves the station, there is no automatic way to open those restraints unless you use like a (I forget what it is), but let's say a crowbar (not really, but). So American Eagle has a power outage, it doesn't matter because the station is the only place to automatically open those restraints. Those restraints won't just open up if you have no power. If Giant Drop had a power outage, I would hope that those restraints wouldn't open; but if they did they still would have the back up system of the seatbelts.

This brings me to a reason why I'm even asking this question. The KMG Afterburner at the state fair had a person flying out of their seat from the ride. That restraint reminds of the Giant Drop restraint. A broken car falling off of it, and initially I thought there is no power for that car, and thus no power for the harnesses. Thus, the car's harnesses might open up, but doesn't there have to be something where the power goes out, and the harnesses still stay shut??? So, how could someone fly out of the seat they were in if the harnesses stay locked even without power.

I know Revolution at the park is a newer ride, and that even does the click / click / click locking thing to.
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Postby Whizzer Whiz Kid on August 1st, 2017, 8:45 am
I know for sure that Eagle and Viper, along with every other newer PTC train has ratcheting lapbars. Eagle has custom ones from when they took out the buzz bars and it needs that electricity sent in the buzz to release the bars. (or the t thing they can stick in the hole) Viper has ratcheting lapbars on the side which are released by pushing in the spring with the button on the sides of the train.
Giant Drop's harnesses on the other hand are all hydraulic, similar to Goliath and X-Flight. Restraints cannot be closed with a constant electric current because if the electricity would go out, this would not be good at all.
As for Revolution, yes it has ratcheting OTSR but you have to remember that so does Superman and that Revolution was at Great Adventure first. Also, even new rides have ratcheting bars like the Super Loops.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on August 1st, 2017, 8:57 am
I'd also like to add that the brakes on Giant Drop are special magnets. That means if the power goes out the brakes will still work since they require no electricity. That actually makes me feel safer on that ride knowing how the brakes work. The lift cable requires electricity presumably so a power outage could get you stuck on the way up. We got stuck very near the top last year at night during Fright Fest (I believe due to a sensor and NOT from loss of electricity).
I explained 2 things to my friend and 2 other riders:
a) the ride must reach the top for the gondola to detach from the catch car. Therefore we weren't just gonna drop at any time
b) the brakes will work in all circumstances since they're magnetic
Last edited by CoasterRiderSC on August 1st, 2017, 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cliffhanger on August 1st, 2017, 8:59 am
No matter which mechanism is used on an attraction, it is is always in an active lock position. In other words, the only way to open the restraint is to apply force. That way if there is an electrical or even hydraulic failure, the restraints will never open. This is the same thing for block brakes. The default position is closed and the only time it is open is when the air pressure forces the plates apart. I think the new restraints work on an electrical "ratchet", similar to the brakes on AA. Either way, the only way to open them is to be in the station or to have a manual "key". What happened in the Fireball tragedy was a different story. When the carriage separated, the opposite arm struck it and threw it away from the ride. An impact like this might have enough force to jarr the ratcheting mechanism and make it fail. We still dont know which riders were thrown out, ones on the failed carriage, or ones on the nearby seats. In "aftermath" photos, you can see people are still secured in their seats on the failed section. With such an accident like this, it is really hard to tell what exactly went wrong. If the ride had installed seatbelts, the injuries might have been less, but either way it was truly a freak accident. Don't let that scare you though, you are perfectly safe on any SFGAm ride, as long as you follow the safety instructions.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on August 1st, 2017, 11:23 am
That accident at Ohio State Fair has helped me to decide to avoid ALL carnival rides. The rides are setup so fast and how much supervision is going on? Plus the carnival rides can't even compare to the flat rides at our park.
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Postby anewman35 on August 1st, 2017, 12:09 pm
CoasterRiderSC wrote:That accident at Ohio State Fair has helped me to decide to avoid ALL carnival rides. The rides are setup so fast and how much supervision is going on? Plus the carnival rides can't even compare to the flat rides at our park.


That's your choice, obviously. But an occasional accident over all the carnivals in the world gives you a pretty good chance of being safe. There's risk in anything...
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Postby Guy_With_A_Stick on August 1st, 2017, 12:30 pm
Just FYI, the reason the restraints on the Afterburner opened were because the cables controling the restraints were severed:

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Postby Ilovthevu' on August 1st, 2017, 12:45 pm
^That's what I thought too, but it doesn't have to do with electricity. Please, read Cliffhanger's thoughts. The arm no longer having electricity should not matter. That's sort of why I brought up this whole topic. Giant Drop sort of has the same (I guess hydraulic) restraint as this KMG ride. Not the click / click (ratchet system).
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on August 1st, 2017, 2:09 pm
anewman35 wrote:
CoasterRiderSC wrote:That accident at Ohio State Fair has helped me to decide to avoid ALL carnival rides. The rides are setup so fast and how much supervision is going on? Plus the carnival rides can't even compare to the flat rides at our park.


That's your choice, obviously. But an occasional accident over all the carnivals in the world gives you a pretty good chance of being safe. There's risk in anything...


Yes, there is risk in everything, even rides at solid parks like Six Flags have freak accidents (ie Demon getting stuck in a loop, the Ninja encountering a branch and derailing). I really don't go to carnivals very often, plus with the Season Pass, why would I want to shell out money when I can hit flat rides for free?

But, your point is well taken!
Last edited by CoasterRiderSC on August 4th, 2017, 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on August 1st, 2017, 2:11 pm
Guy_With_A_Stick wrote:Just FYI, the reason the restraints on the Afterburner opened were because the cables controling the restraints were severed:


Have they ruled this an accident and NOT some type of terrorism attack?? I watched the video about the accident and read the article. The carnival operator insisted that this ride was checked 3-4 times in the prior day or two.
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Postby JaminOut on August 1st, 2017, 3:27 pm
Steve, you can’t be serious... A terrorist attack? There is no evidence (even alleged) that points towards such an event.


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Postby FParker185 on August 1st, 2017, 7:53 pm
In Ohio, restraints in the car that separated remained locked, the gondola smashed into another gondola and physically broke the restraints off sending passengers from that car flying. Also the cause appears to be metal fatigue made worse by the fact that water was able to collect inside the support arm heavily rusting the connection/weld from the inside where it attached to the seat hanger tube.

Giant Drop along with most modern rides use a closed loop hydraulic restraint. The only way to open it is by applying power to a valve that allows the oil to flow freely between the sides of the cylinder. For extreme cases there is also a manual bypass that involves turning a valve handle a number of times behind the seat
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Postby Ilovthevu' on August 1st, 2017, 9:49 pm
I changed my mind a little. Okay, I might except it. What I don't like about the design of the ride now that I investigated it more is that they should be putting more metal into the end of the center arm, and if you look at this youtube KMG Afterburner setup below, you can see that they use a lot of metal for the center, and than the metal starts getting less & less till the end of the arm. I think they are using too little metal for attaching the seats, and thus the metal might have corroded over a long time - though it took 19 years.

https://youtu.be/Q9KGwGIZvUc?t=9m14s

To me, how the KMG Freak Out is designed seems so subpar in comparision (in regards to how much metal they are using) to how these KMG Afterburners are designed though. To me, even though the metal for the KMG Afterburner goes from a lot to less and than way less, the KMG Freak Out is completely less metal for the whole structure though the one thing they "fixed" is where the seats attach to the structure (not much of a bend). How long are these KMG Freak Outs going to last until one of these breaks off though?

This happened with Spin Out, and KMG / Tivoli have the same ride. KMG calls it Move It, and Tivoli called it Spin Out.

"Immediately inspect all welds on the “Spin Out” sweep arms as indicated on the attached
drawings. Be sure to visually inspect the full sweep length, and make appropriate repairs
if necessary. Pay particular attention to the hinge plate gussets and the gussets and the
tips of the gusset kits "

KMG needs to be putting in more metal in these rides the whole way through. I think that's why you have these problems. You wonder why an Eyerly Spider is 50 years old, and it's still running. They put heavy / study metal into the entire ride / no weak points.

If not though, it could be a lot of loose bolts, or rusty bolts.. Didn't they even NDT test this thing at the beginning of the year? Basically, what I think is that if this ride is corroded metal, I think KMG should redo a bunch of their rides with way more metal holding up these 4 passenger cars (Move It / Afterburner / Freak Out).

I will NOT say that Zamperla Power surge is the best mechanical ride out there, but you also don't see it breaking apart. If you look at the Zamperla Power Surge, and you compare to the Freak Out, look at the Zamperla Power Surge, and see how the arm is the same size the whole way through. You can also look at the ends of the arm almost being the same size. These KMG Afterburners are sadly not built like that, and I think that's a flaw. The KMG Freak Outs are like that, but again the Power Surge has more "meat" the whole way through than the KMG Freak Out does, and that should re-designed also with way more metal.

When I see people get injured on a KMG Afterburner, I really don't like it. Than, it shows the failure of the ride in which I like that ride so much which is so disappointing to me. If this had to happen to a famous manufacturer, I wish it was not KMG because I like their stuff a bunch. I mean, there are so many terrible rides out there, and why did this have to happen to this one? :cry: :cry: Larson loopers are garbage to me. Larson Hi-Roller is one of the worst rides I've ever been on, but nope. Zero Gravity stinks to me. It always seems like the best flat rides have problems - Chance Chaos / this one / KMG Move It or Spin Out
Last edited by Ilovthevu' on August 2nd, 2017, 7:39 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby MrsTaxi on August 1st, 2017, 10:15 pm
When it come to Giant Drop/ Intamin drop towers, I'm more fearful of a malfunction of the cables. :shock:
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Postby Ilovthevu' on August 1st, 2017, 10:24 pm
^That's part of the reason I stay away from the Giant Drop. The ride for me is just okay, but that type of danger makes me not want to go on it. If the ride was so much better to me, than I would say, I'm definitely going on it anyway. I don't care that much. Though, the carnival version to me is so much better / more fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU9FzqrRFOQ

The ride that has worried me the most about actual fear of dying is actually X2. I feel like if the worker or yourself doesn't put yourself "right" in those harnesses, than you are dead because the harnesses just don't seem right. I would still ride it even though I was in fear for my life the last time I went to Magic Mountain. Those harnesses should be redesigned. It's not the experience of X2 flipping upside down, but those harnesses. They should be the S&S Freefly harnesses instead. I'm puzzled how they even bought new trains, and didn't redo the harnesses on that ride.

A KMG Freak Out, I would go on tomorrow. I've been on those ride for so many years, and nothing has ever happened until now. A carnival company in IL, has a KMG Afterburner called Feverball, and I have ridden it since they first got it. They probably first got it in 2005, so it's at least 12 years old if not more because they bought it from another carnival. So, 12 years of that ride and I've never see a major problem with it. If they bring it again next year, I'm still going to ride it.

For the person that says I'm going to just avoid carnival rides, that is your choice. though, it's not like amusement parks never had accidents at all either. You have everything from the New Texas Giant to Top Thrill (Cedar Point), Premier coaster used to be at Great Adventure, Cajun Cliffhanger accident, Kingda Ka (It had a huge failure before people went on it, but it was still bad.), Roaring Rapids at Over Texas, Superman at New England & Darien Lake, Boomerang at St. Louis, Shoot the Rapids, Big Thunder at DIsneyland, Space Mountain at Disneyland, Peter Pan at Magic Kingdom, of course Demon, American Eagle, Chaos at Michigan Adventure, Giant Drop ride at Kentucky Kingdom, etc The list goes on and on, but I know 99% of the time, these rides are safe, but sadly you have the 0.001% problems..., and that's LIFE.

Your chances of getting injured in a car are so high, it's ridiculous compared to rides. I was researching an Ohio report, and I found 306 people get injured in a vehicle per DAY / + 3 people die in a vehicle on average also in only the state of Ohio.

Since the Ohio State Fair, that would mean an average of 7 days x 306 per day = 2100 injuries, and 7 day x 3 = 21 deaths based on vehicles. A sad crisis of vehicle deaths, and no one goes after car manufacturers. If the news cared about solving that problem as much as they worry about this ride, look at how many people could be saved for 1 year. A story like this though screams fear more, and that's how the news loves to get more ratings. Who wants to see another car accident on tv unless it's interesting - car goes into a Red Lobster. Now, that's interesting to the news.

Raise your hands up in the air if you are scared to drive in your car tomorrow. Of course, I will see no hands raised. Raise you hands up in the air if you are scared to go on the Freak Out Thursday at some carnival. Yep. Everyone has their hands up. "That ride kills people. Take all those rides down. They all kill people." Goes in their car to the movies instead. Sees a crash on the highway going to the movies. Yep. Those people were very bad drivers. Oh, well. "They might have been drunk." You than erase that memory. Next day, you hear ambulances going somewhere. Someone got sick from heat exhaustion. Yep. Instead, it's another car accident. More people injured. So, your erase your memory again. Cars are fun, fun...

From 2013, IL says there are almost 800 car accidents a day:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

Ohio is worse with vehicle accidents, but maybe they don't have as many trains (a subway?) or buses as Chicago. I don't know.
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Postby maxwellt on August 2nd, 2017, 7:02 am
I believe state inspectors inspected this ride before operation right? And you know what other ride they inspected....son of beast....I'm not gonna rip on them a whole lot, but now that isn't a great track record to have with 2 major incidents since when sob opened in 2000

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Postby FParker185 on August 2nd, 2017, 10:06 pm
I would post pics of what caused the accident in Ohio, but they'd be utterly wasted here. Go ride rides with "enough metal" in them, and don't make me wait any longer than I have to for good rides.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on August 3rd, 2017, 8:55 am
To answer a few questions:
BEN - YES I was totally serious about terrorism being behind this ride breaking apart. I thought I had read that a cable which had been inspected 3-4x in prior day(s) had snapped, causing this disaster (based on what I read in the article).

Ilovthevu- As for carnival rides, I can take them or leave them. My point was that the flat rides at our park are permanent. That doesn't mean they can't have a bolt corrode or a cable fray. I was surmising that carnival rides are definitely more prone to have issues since they're moved and re-assembled very often.
Plus with a Season Pass, why would i want to pay for some just OK carnival rides when I can go to our park and ride them free??

As for driving a car, I drive a car and also ride a motorcycle (over 100x to work each year and rides on weekends). Motorcycle accidents are similar to roller coaster/ride accidents in that they get lots of media coverage. Motorcycles aren't dangerous, but distracted/texting drivers are!

A few years ago I did some research on NON-motorist deaths that resulted from vehicle crashes.
The numbers were eye-popping.
A non-motorist = a pedestrian (walker, jogger, etc), bicyclist, skateboarder, etc. This number of non-motorist deaths exceeds the number of motorcyclist deaths every year in the data that I accessed (1994-2012).


ALL: : what ultimately caused this catastrophe?
Last edited by CoasterRiderSC on August 4th, 2017, 1:21 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on August 3rd, 2017, 9:06 am
FParker185 wrote:I would post pics of what caused the accident in Ohio, but they'd be utterly wasted here. Go ride rides with "enough metal" in them, and don't make me wait any longer than I have to for good rides.


FParker, what ultimately caused this accident? Please post the photos.
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Postby FParker185 on August 3rd, 2017, 4:01 pm
The first photo was posted earlier which clearly shows metal fatigue/stress fracture on half the arm then sudden overload failure on the other half. And this is the other side of joint, the seat hanger the arm was welded to.
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Postby CoasterRiderSC on August 4th, 2017, 8:07 am
^ FParker, thanks for the photos and description. Based on that I totally retract my question about terrorism. I thought I had read that a cable was frayed and that was what caused the tragedy.
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